Well, I’m not sure if they’re exactly “spoilers” or not, considering it’s just speculation. Nor am I the only person to think that the following is the case (board monitor Glenn Hauman shares my opinion.)
On last night’s episode, Giles–having survived his close encounter with a representative of the First Evil–showed up in Sunnydale with three would-be slayers in tow.
Except…I’m thinking not.
I’m thinking we’re seeing a “Sixth Sense” riff here (so much so, as Keith DeCandido pointed out, that they even mentioned that film’s writer/director in the episode). I’m thinking that, with the BBC “Ripper” series apparently terminally stalled, that Giles did not, in fact, survive a dámņëd thing, and that the First is impersonating a dead Giles.
Granted, the dialogue was off. Giles sounded defeatist and unheroic. On the other hand, the script *was* co-written by Marti Noxon, so that’s not exactly unusual.
But the utter lack of physical contact–an impossibility for the incorporeal First–was staggering.
1) Giles never knocked on the door.
2) Giles, the British gentleman, never helped with carrying any luggage or held the door open for any of the females throughout the episode. Nor did he seize a weapon when the others did.
3) When he arrived, none of the females hugged him, and Xander didn’t shake his hand. This is such a stunning lapse in the typical physical behavior of the characters that it seemed like one of those nail-on-chalkboard script requirements. You know, where something has to happen a certain way because the script demands it, but it makes so little sense that it just strikes you as wrong.
4) Giles never removes or hangs up his coat, even when we see others do so with theirs. Why? Speculation: It wouldn’t hang on a hangar.
5) When walking through the Christmas tree lot, the heavier Giles walks directly over the boarded hole that the much lighter Buffy promptly crashes through.
6) When Buffy is scrambling to get out of the hole, Giles doesn’t extend a hand.
7) When the vampire is emerging from the hole, we see Giles is standing directly in front of the sun, blocking it. He blocks it so thoroughly that Buffy is looking straight into it and doesn’t squint. Yet the vampire screams and falls back as if hit with the full force of the sun. Why? Because if Giles is really incorporeal, there’s nothing actually there blocking the UV rays.
Not looking real good for our hero, kids.
PAD
• 
Well, at a glance I’d say Whedon’s M. Night Misdirection worked. Not a single person has commented about the final scene and the godawful, out-of-nowhere, Independence Day-like pep talk. I now look forward to seeing Buffy defeat the First using a Mac.
The problem with that kind of speech is that it’s the exact, pretentious sort of thing that they’ve punctured any number of times before. (“That would have sounded more commanding if I hadn’t been wearing my yummy sushi pajamas” comes to mind.)
You know what they could have done to make it more in keeping with the spirit of the series? Roll back to the end of it:
BUFFY: Any questions?
A beat. Then a hand is raised. Then another. Then every hand is in the air, with Anya gesturing particularly emphatically.
Angle on Buffy. She winces. Blackout. Over the Blackout…
BUFFY: (sigh) Okay…Anya…?
PAD
Well it could be Giles even if giles is alive an kicking… Not that I think that it is.
But it can take the form of any being who has died (you can take it from giles saying it tonight, to simply looking at the manifistations and noticing the pattern). Back in season two when giles is recounting the his old days (regarding summoning that demon) he said they took turns pretty much dying. So he has died. Only not for long.
But I think that the not touching thing is a ruse and the out of character dialog is because of Noxon.
Someone mentioned to me that you never see one of gile’s hands, I can’t confirm this till I can rewatch it tonight but it could be he lost a hand fighting the harbringer (instinctively raises his hand to block the strike at the last second and it gets lopped off).
That would also cause me to be pretty down on my situation.
`Love that alternate ending!!
Hooper
Why are people only noticing *now* that you don’t see Giles’ right hand.
Tony Head has a slight deformity of his fingers on his right hand that he’s self conscious about. He’s kept his right hand out of sight for the last six years, and in every publicity still I’ve seen.
Same thing with Jimmy Doohan (although in his case he’s missing an entire finger.) Watch Scotty when he sits in the command chair and taps the comm buttons. Kirk always just reaches over with his right hand. Scotty reaches completely across his body with his left.
PAD
Huh. I once shook hands with Anthony Head and never noticed anything amiss.
Has anyone considered that the First could be impersonating a still-living Giles? The only source of the notion that the First can only impersonate the dead is Giles. If “Giles” IS the First, this could be a tactically misleading of the Scoobies.
Or perhaps “Giles” is really Eddie Van Blundht.
You know, I never noticed any of that “not touching” stuff. It didn’t even pop into my head that Giles might be the First. My mom thought of it, though. She seems to be picking up a lot of stuff on the show lately that I haven’t been seeing.
After seeing this episode, it seems to me that they’re trying to make Buffy into the mystical equivalent of Superman or Captain America. Sort of a larger than life inspirational force. First there was the bit that Spike said about Buffy believing in him, then there was the big speech at the end. I might be wrong, though.
I agree that if there is a First Evil, then it might make sense if there was a First Good. My guess is that not only is Giles a manifestation of that, but Joyce is as well. I assumed the Principle was in thrall of the First Evil, but I guess I could be wrong.
Well I never noticed anything wrong with ASH’s hand before, not that I have ever had the pleasure of meeting him face to face before.
But the theory I was told earlier falls apart. his hand is there in like the second scene he’s in (he crosses his arms), then he adjusts his glasses atleast once.
It’s funny, I just posted on another site about the end of Grant Morrison’s run on Doom Patrol. I likened the scene where the Chief killed Josh as being the equivalent of Giles putting a bullet between Xander’s eyes. I said that reading it now almost makes me hear that little bit of music that’s the musical equivalent of saying “Oh, no, M.E., you did *not* just say that!”
My favorite part: The introduction of the Lt. Slayers, Hillbilly Slayer, Fat Slayer and Tall Slayer.
And Gary Burghoff has a deformed left hand. I was told this well into the run of ‘M*A*S*H’…heck, maybe even after it was over. I looked again, and sure enough, Burghoff manages to not exactly hide it, but not emphasise it either in every scene he’s in. The things y’never notice right away…..!!
Hooper
Well, I’m kind of glad there’s all this ambiguity. it means that no matter what happens, it will be a surprise.
Cockney pre-slayer ran for a reason though. Also, there seemed to be a bit of an ominous silence when that other pre-slayer asked for weapons. It might be nothing though.
I may be flogging a dead horse here, but I’m really getting bogged down in confusion over how the “slayer” is created. As I understand it, sorcerers in the past created a slayer to hunt the vampires. The first one was an aboriginal girl of some kind. As each slayer died, a new slayer was created. Not born, but created. Buffy becomes the slayer, kills Pee-Wee Herman, moves to Sunnydale. She dies, comes back to life. Kendra becomes the Slayer. Buffy still has all the original powers she ever had. Two slayers. Kendra dies. Faith appears. Buffy has prophetic dreams, channels original slayer. Buffy dies again. No new slayer. Why? Word on this website it’s because faith is the “THE SLAYER”, and Buffy is only “a slayer.” Now we see that there are pre-slayers that are determined by…what, exactly? It can’t be bloodlines, surely? And neither Buffy nor Faith knew of their destinies prior to gaining their abilities. (by-the-by, didn’t Buffy flatline for a few seconds when Willow was removing that bullet? Maybe she died thrice.)
Both the Buffy movie, and Kendra in season two make it clear that the norm for slayers is for them to be trained from a very young age. Buffy and Faith were just flukes who slipped under the radar or something (although I’m amused that one of the forthcoming SITs is also from Sunnydale and no one knew about her). I don’t know why (except because Joss says so) that more slayers aren’t called when Buffy dies and gets brought back the second time, but technically there’ll be no new slayer unless Faith dies. Am waiting for one of the SITs (Kennedy being the most likely) to get confrontational with Buffy over her not killing Faith so that one of them could be slayer and better defend themselves from ubervamp or First Evil.
I think Giles as a ghost or as the First is a red herring, and the “maybe he crossed over on a boat like Kendra” theory is good, except that he didn’t have enough time to travel by boat across the Atlantic, gather three SITs and travel across the country. Without some serious time distortion going on (which I do actually suspect, since the previous episode fully established a November date and Dru-First made the “it’s almost Christmas” comment when no more than 1-2 days could have passed) Giles couldn’t have done all that in the span of just a few days.
Also, re-watch the episode, Buffy seems to be clearly stepping up to hug Giles and then the SITs cut her off as they barge in. I’m with whatever other poster mentioned that the hugging probably happened off-camera a little later in order to keep us following the Giles-is-Evil red herring.
Weird zoning laws… I’m with you. Sunnydale was established as small in Season one, but then just kept getting bigger and bigger. How many small towns have zoos? Episode five of season two (Reptile Man) establishes the existence of UC Sunnydale AND multiple other high schools (see Willow researching missing people from Sunnydale schools). My personal belief is that it’s always been a slightly large suburb of a much larger city like San Diego.
Principal Wood…my guess–he’s either a minion of Good (maybe even Gaia specifically, tying him in to the reasons Willow returned to the states, and reminiscent of PADs earlier statement a couple months ago about him being a “Goodfellow”) or he’s a member of the Initiative.
Guh. Idle speculation is hurting my head. Anxiously awaiting January.
Dave
Maybe the ubervamp recoiled from Giles for an entirely different reason. Maybe Giles is now the host to someone Glory-ous after killing Ben and doesn’t know it and the vamp recoiled from that. This could also explain how Giles survived–Glory had both the speed and the strength to escape that axe…
As for Annabelle’s sudden departure:
I don’t believe this has anything to do with Giles or the First. I believe the intention was to show Annabelle as the tough, calm Slayer-to-be, but when reality checked in (“It’s going to come straight for us, isn’t it?) she cracked and left before the uber-vamp could get there. You see it in war movies all the time. 😉
The First seems to have really crappy strategy. First it goes after Angel. By this point Buffy has died once and the First could take her form. Later it goes for Willow (by which point Tara is dead). In both instances it wants to get it’s target to commit suicide. But in both instances, it takes the form of someone who either didn’t know or wasn’t close with the target when the image of someone the target loved deeply was readily available.
Okay, let’s put another possible scenario on the board.
Giles hears the axe-man and reacts just as the axe is falling. It hits his throat (not cutting off his head), blood gushes, Giles falls to the floor, doesn’t move, and the minion (who can’t see anything anyways) thinks he’s dead, hears someone (plural, probably) coming, and beats a hasty retreat. Those coming, possibly a handful of Watchers, possibly just some people who heard a scuffle, find Giles and rush him to the emergency room. While being patched up, he flatlines, but is brought back by the magic of modern medical techniques. So, technically, like Buffy in season one, Giles died. Therefore, the First thinks he’s dead and can mimic him. But Giles isn’t dead, and he’ll be heading to Sunnydale soon to put a hurt on this evil bášŧárd doing…well, evil…in his guise.
Just something to make everything even more confusing. Enjoy!
Rob R.
I disagree that Giles is the First in disguise. I think that line of thought has been set up by Mutant Enemy (ME) to, well, mess with the fans a little. After all, look through this thread and note how much mental and emotional energy you’ve all spent discussing this possibility.
Giles seems discouraged and uphelpful? Sure he is. The Watcher’s Council was just blown off the face of the earth. He’s lost good friends and their young charges to a systematic attack. He’s up against something he can barely understand and has no clue how to defeat.
The “no-touching” business is a little trickier. There’s no “reason” for it save a wierd string of coincidences and choices. The “spontaneous hug” when he first arrived got interrupted by the three “Next-Gen” girls physically coming between him and Buffy and the moment was lost. Giles asked Cassandra to get the book because she was closer (and probably functioning as his unofficial “assistant”, Watcher’s Pet that she seemed to be). Giles didn’t help Buffy out of the hole because he wasn’t quite fast enough or close enough. The sun being blocked? Well, in other scenes, Giles has been solid enough to cast a shadow. I haven’t noticed whether the First’s manifestation cast shadows or not, though. Maybe when he saw the thing in the whole, he moved and let the sun shine down. It’s possible. Taken as a whole, Giles’ behavior seems suspicious, but it still can have mundane explanations.
“The First cannot be defeated.” Well, no, it’s can’t be, at least not the way the other Big Bads have been. It can be (and in “Amends” WAS) thwarted, but never truly destroyed. As the Joyce-vision noted (and I paraphrase), “evil is always present within the human heart.” Creation and Destruction, or, if you prefer, “Good” and “Evil” are necessary, balancing forcing of Reality. As Willow discovered at the beginning of the season, The First EVil is connected will all the rest of the Earth.
The struggle for this season isn’t seeking the destruction of the First, but finding a way to push it back into its place in the balance of Reality. That is a doable goal, though doable only at great cost. Which is as per usual for Buffy and co.
Oops. The Slayer-in-Training’s name was Annabelle, not Cassandra. My bad.
I would think the Joyce bit would be obvious by now. How did Buffy first learn of The Master? How did she speak with Faith while they’re both lying comatose?
Through visions.
It’s a slayer thing.
Buffy’s dreaming of Joyce and Joyce is offering advice.
Who else did Joyce (in one form or another) give advice to?… that’s right, our newest to-be slayer in training, Dawn.
Of all the people that have died, why is this one woman, a woman without powers or magical gifts able to cross the line between life and death and talk to Buffy and Dawn?
There’s absolutely no reason why she would be able to.
That leaves 2 options:
1. She is Joyce summers or 2. She is not Joyce summers.
She’s not the actual, spiritual manifestation of Mamma Summers. The First good? Hey, could be.
Or it’s just a slayer vision shared seperately between two slayers.
Giles isn’t dead.
How many times have you seen Giles take the initiative (no pun intended) to make physical contact with anyone? Come on, we’re talking about stuffy brittish guy here. We may as well believe Buffy and crew are the evil beings because they’re not reaching out and touching someone. Anya didn’t get her butt off the couch. Xander didn’t reach out to shake hands. Buffy attempts to hug? Sure. But Giles isn’t expected to show outright affection. Because the Scoobies themselves didn’t attempt physical contact with Giles both at the Summers’ house and later, when Buffy was crawling out of the hole, we have to assume that it’s the writers creating something out of nothing.
If attempts were made to hug Giles and he backed off, then we could doubt. We would have actions to back our words. We don’t though. Giles didn’t shrug off contact, he was never given a situation where it was asked of him.
Giles is alive with a story to tell.
I thought the same thing about Giles, the not touching and all, and then it hit me –
What if this was not Giles as the First?
What if this was Giles as a ghost?
Maybe his odd behavior is due to the fact that he is depressed about being dead. (I hear it can ruin your day.) Perhaps he does not know how to break it to Buffy and the Scoobies without breaking them. TOL (Thinking out loud)
Charlie
PS – Congrats, Peter. Your little girl beat ours. We are still waiting. Hope Mom and child are well!
It seems that the show is going in a certain direction, and the clues placed were definitely real. The problem with this show, is, that it zigs when you are just getting ready for it to zag. By trying to guess any possible outcome, aren’t we kind of ruining it for ourselves a little? I mean, all this speculation that Mutant Enemy wouldn’t do anything so obvious as to place subtle clues throughout a script, where anyone could decifer them. Are we listening to ourselves..um, type?
1. Dawn is not going to be a Slayer in Training or at least Iseriously doubt it.
2. I don’t think Giles is dead but there is definately something going on with him.
3. If the First Evil can only manifest as those who have died then Glory is dead and gone (See episode #1 of this season).
4. Joyce. I -think- this is Mrs. Summers talking to Buffy and Dawn but I suspect most of what she says has more than one meaning. Such as. “When the end comes, Buffy won’t choose you” could mean that when a sacrifice is needed, Buffy won’t choose Dawn.
I’m really having a hard time suspending my disbelief on two fronts:
1.) They did mention Faith, but no one’s suggested trying to break her out of prison.
2.) They haven’t even mentioned Angel. Come on, that’s just ridiculous.
That throws things as far off-kilter for me as, for example, the episode of ER last season when Mark Greene died. No one’s going to tell me that Doug Ross and Carol Hathaway would not have attended his funeral. But they couldn’t (or didn’t try?) get George Clooney and Julianna Marguilles back for a 10-second cameo the way they got Eriq La Salle and Michael Michele to do, and so this beautiful episode has a horribly flawed ending in which a man’s best friend misses his funeral.
On Buffy’s multiple deaths not activating multiple slayers:
I’ve always thought along the lines of an earlier posting, that Buffy’s first death in season one activated Kendra, and Kendra’s death activated Faith. As long as Faith remains alive, no new slayers will emerge, no matter how many times someone manages to stop Buffy’s heart. Buffy’s out of the chain now.
As for busting Faith out of jail, it’s possible that they’ve considered that and found Eliza Dushku to be unavailable due to other commitments.
>>As for busting Faith out of jail, it’s possible that they’ve considered that and found Eliza Dushku to be unavailable due to other commitments.<<
I think she’s committed to doing several episodes over on ANGEL. I’ve also heard that she’s scheduled for a couple (or more) episodes on BtVS.
As for jailbreaking Faith, think it through a little. Faith is in jail for multiple assaults, batteries and homicides. Yes, the last time we saw her, she appeared to, be sincerely remorseful. But if she got out, there’s no guarantee that the winds of freedom wouldn’t blow that remorse clean away. Faith doesn’t have a pain chip in her head to stop her from killing Willow, Xander, Buffy or other folks who’ve made her feel less than “Five by Five.” Hëll, Faith might end up allying with the First Evil in its guise as the Mayor (it’s not like it hasn’t happened before).
There’s also the prospect of a fairly intense manhunt (since the cops would qualify her as an extremely dangerous felon) that could easily lead right to Buffy’s front door. Jail time for aiding and abetting an escaped fugitive could put a serious crimp in the fight against the First.
Finally, Faith’s in no immediate danger. The First seems to have a pretty definite order in mind: Kill off the SiTs (and the Watchers Council). Then kill Faith. Then kill Buffy. As long as there’s some SiTs still around (still two left with more on the way) Faith is relatively safe.
So, breaking Faith out of jail now would be a lot of risk and trouble to gain an ally whose loyalties would be uncertain at best.
>>1.) They did mention Faith, but no one’s suggested trying to break her out of prison.<<
Because it’s a wee bit premature to do so at this point.
>>2.) They haven’t even mentioned Angel. Come on, that’s just ridiculous.<<
Actually, they have. “It tried to kill Angel.” Oh, you meant as an option for an additional ally. Well, Angel’s a little busy with his own Superevil apocalypse if you recall. Still, it’s be an interesting conversation.
Buffy: “Um, hello Angel? Listen, you know the First Evil, that thing that was messing with you a few years ago.
Angel: “Yeah, I remember, it was the Christmas after I came back from that hundred-year vacation in a hëll dimension you sent me on.”
Buffy: “Wow. Bitter much? Anywho, it’s back. It’s been messing with Spike, who’s got a soul now, by the way and having its minions kill potential Slayers and it blew up the Watchers Council, too. So, can you like, drop out of your life for a while and help me out, sweetie?”
Angel: “Love to, honeybunch, but I’m a little in LA right now. See, it’s raining hellfire from the sky. I just my ášš handed to me by something that might just be Satan returned. And, oh yeah, I just watched my son (who’s up to receive the Nate Grey Award for Most Convoluted Origin Story) having sex with Cordelia, my soulmate. Maybe some other time, ‘kay?”
Buffy: “Okay, bye.” *Click*
Buffy: “Ðámņ, maybe I should try Riley, he’s probably got some free time coming…”
johntfs wrote:
The First seems to have a pretty definite order in mind: Kill off the SiTs (and the Watchers Council). Then kill Faith. Then kill Buffy. As long as there’s some SiTs still around (still two left with more on the way) Faith is relatively safe.
I don’t think that’s necessarily the First’s plan. I suspect that she specifically wants Buffy alive, but I’ve seen no evidence that she’s opposed to killing anyone else, and the order of the killings may be based on nothing more than convenience. Annabelle, for example, was attacked before the other Slayers-in-training because she made herself an easy target.
The First seems to want Buffy around. In “Lessons,” the season premiere, the First hinted at a plan involving Buffy and Spike. She might want to corrupt Buffy, rather than kill her. There’s been some speculation that Buffy will go bad. Joss and company have been foreshadowing that development for years now, I think, and Buffy’s “I am the law” speech before she attacked Anya sounded especially ominous to me. The First has had several opportunities to kill Buffy, and hasn’t taken them. The Ubervamp injured Buffy pretty severely, but rather than finish her off, he walked away. I have to suspect that was intentional.
–Daniel
You know, the corrupting Buffy thing sounds like a good idea. For one, it’s a way to get her out of the show, if that is Gellar’s final decision. Two, it would explain from the first episode why the First takes her form last when talking to Spike.