I’ll tell ya, I’ve been waiting for ages for a good Gunn episode.
And this sure as hëll wasn’t it.
Gunn says he’s the muscle. Lightning Lass says he’s got brains. Given the events of last night’s show, I’m with Gunn.
To understate it, he was not well served by the script. Lightning Lass tells him a girl is being held captive. Lightning Lass is a criminal. What’s he do? Believe her. He goes to the party, where the little girl is seen standing there. She doesn’t look in distress. Does he sidle over to her, strike up a conversation, try to determine what’s what? Nope. He kidnaps her. Learning he’s been lied to, he confronts Lightning Lass who says, Yup, I lied to you, but this guy’s a bad guy anyway, and you should help me finish stealing this thing because you started helping me steal it. Does Gunn say, “You lied to me until now, why should I believe anything you say?” Does Gunn say, “I was tricked into committing a crime, and now I should knowingly complete it? Are you high or something?” No. He believes her again and helps her steal it. There’s an attempt to justify it by saying he’s really enjoying it and getting a rush from it. And if a group of his old friends showed up and invited him to knock over a liquor store, would that be acceptable if he got off on it?
Please.
Bad writing. Worse: ugly writing.
Meantime evil Cordy gets caught in a trap that she should have seen coming a mile off. Why? Because *I* saw it coming a mile off, and I’m not even evil. *This* is the master villain? Man, at this point I hope she *is* being manipulated by the demon baby, because at least you could excuse the baby for falling into so obvious a set-up.
A marking time episode with five minutes worth of relevant plot and the rest filler at the expense of a character’s intelligence. Not time well spent.
PAD
• 
I agree with PAD about the Gunn comments. I didn’t believe her. Also a compliment should not have been enough for Gunn to want to know why she wanted him OVER Angel, and a suit is not reason enough to steal.
But as for evil Cordy (the only part of the last three episodes I have NOT enjoyed) I had no problem with. Angel even pointed out this episode that she (the beastmaster) has not been all that smart. And she hasn’t. She hasn’t played like a master villian.
If this happened on Buffy, I would expect a weak resolution, but the writing on Angel is solid this season and I expect there are more revelations to come.
Plus I was happy that once the gang was able to focus on Cordy and Conner they knew something was up. Even Conner finally got suspicious. I am happy to see the gang wise up.
Now if only the majority of the episode wasn’t ‘Let us focus on Gunn because he has not gotten much to do this season’ filler stuff.
I don’t know I kinda liked it. It was a nice break from all the heavy stories we’ve had this year. Angel talking to Cordie about how stupid the beast’s master (yes sir pun intended) was and then proving it by catching her in an obvious trap was fun to watch.
OK maybe Gunn isn’t the sharpest stake in the lot but he’s still an enjoyable character.
Well, considering the insulted look on Cordy’s face when Angel mentioned that he didn’t think the Big Bad even had a plan and was just making things up as it went along, I’m thinking he was pretty close to the mark. If it’s Cordy’s baby behind this whole thing, I could very easily see it not knowing how to be a mastermind yet. At least Connor was finally beginning to realize he was being manipulated. But I agree, this was a filler episode through and through.
I enjoyed the episode, and I was actually fooled by the ending. I thought Lorn (Loren?) was actually going to get killed. See, I try to enjoy myself while watching a show rather than try to second guess the direction. I wait and do that if I watch the show a second time. I’m just pleased if I’m entertained, and I was very pleased with this episode.
Rob R.
And Gwen looked SO INCREDIBLY HOT in that black little front lace-up number.
I agree this will go down in the annals of mediocre filler episodes…but I will say it was a relief to see Cordy interacting with somebody other than Conner, and thus not being in BLATANT MANIPULATOR MODE all the time. (And I’ll be interested to see what the fallout will be.)
I think this episode was intended to be a little more than a filler. The goal seemed to be to put yet another wedge between Fred and Gunn, which the last scene between Gunn and Gwen certainly seemed to accomplish. To get to that point they have to establish a situation whereby they can get the two of them in an intimate setting.
As for the gang capturing Evil Cordelia, call me crazy, but I like cliffhangers, except when it’s the last episode of a season. I want to know just what led them to think it was Cordy, unless somebody realized that the timing and manner of her pregnancy was too coincidental. I like to see them in subterfuge mode. Remember when Lorne slipped Angel a note after W&H had bugged the hotel?
My only question was where was Connor during the final scene? I didn’t see him and the rest of the gang probably didn’t let him in on their plan. Or is it possible that Connor is the one who finally wised up and told everyone else that there’s something wrong with Cordelia besides her demon pregnancy and terrible taste in maternity clothes?
In a rare congruence of viewpoints, I agree with everything PAD has said. Well, except for the part where he say’s he not evil.
That said, I do see one thing playing out here that I’ve seen in other episodes. The growing distance between Fred and Gunn obviously widens this episode. I’m wondering if perhaps a rift or even a temporary parting of the ways is coming up for Gunn and the gang.
I did like one line that Gunn got off though, “I feel like I’ve spent most of this year in a supernatural soap opera.”
Or is it possible that Connor is the one who finally wised up and told everyone else that there’s something wrong with Cordelia besides her demon pregnancy and terrible taste in maternity clothes?
Evil Preggers Cordy looks like she should be doing annoying TV ads for Pier One.
Chris
Gee, I liked it. Frankly, Lightning Lass helped the Fang Gang last time ’round, so Gunn’s trust wasn’t totally misplaced. That she abused it seems obvious to us, but I can see where he’d have trusted her.
Aside from that, I think she turned his head with flattery, and who among us isn’t succeptable to that from an attractive person of the gender we appreciate?
I LOVED the trap sprung on Evil Cordy. I think it was exactly the point, that she WASN’T handling it well at all. The last scene, where she was caught, was priceless.
“He goes to the party, where the little girl is seen standing there. She doesn’t look in distress.”
Neither did Elizabeth Smart when she was found with her kidnappers. Perhaps Gunn was thinking “Stockholm Syndrome.”
Corey
Lightning Lass? That girl from the Legion of Super Heroes?
OK, so I’m not a Buffy or Angel viewer …
I didn’t mind this episode. My favourite Gunn moment was when he realized he’d been tricked, “I took a break from the apocalypse for this?!”
And although it totally felt like a set up, I was still worried for Lorne at the end there. I mean, they seem to enjoy bashing the poor guy on the head.
Is Connor going to accept that his love child is eeeeeevil?
I loved seeing Gunn kick ášš again its been so long since August Richards has been able to cut loose on the show.
And I like the idea of Gunn and Gwen a lot more than the idea of Gunn & Fred.
Well, I didn’t notice how stupid Gunn was acting, or how stupid Cordelia was acting, or any of that stuff, because, you know, Lightning Lass is really really hot. Which I suppose explains why Gunn acted stupid, I guess.
Wesley and his boom-stick was cool, too.
I’m easily amused.
As I told my wife after last night’s episode “I don’t care what you think, you are not shopping in the Stevie Nicks Maternity Clothes Department when you get pregnant!”
Eh, okay episode, nothing special.
No comments on last week’s Willow-guestage, Angelus-this-is-your-afterlife, end-of-the-Faith arc episode? It was a lot more worthy of discussion than this one was.
In addition to Peter’s points about Gunn suddenly going over to the “If it’s fun, just do it” school of thought (which, given his history as organizer of a street-level anti-vamp group just doesn’t jive…unless it was done a bit more subtlely over a period of time, not a sudden out of character jump), um, didn’t he and
Fred reconcile a couple of episodes back? I also don’t see him literally jumping into bed with Gwen if there’s still at least a good chance with Fred.
But, as I’ve mentioned before, the concept of Gunn as a street-level independent who works with Angel & Co. was good. But ever since he left all his group behind and joined Angel Investigations, they’ve been unable to figure out what to do with the character. And he’s not muscle for AI; he’s down to at best third option for that behind Angel and Connor, and a weaponed up Wes would give him at least a run for his money these days.
Okay, I agree with PAD about Gunn acting out of character.
Now, what about the latest episode of South Park, eh? References to the Superman movies with Christopher Reeve, and the Superfriends. And it had the immortal scene of Reeve cracking open baby fetuses and sucking out the insides.
I’m sorry. I’ll shut up now.
Okay
Blatant filler episode: check.
Blatant attempt to show the audience that they hadn’t forgotten about Gunn: check.
Cordy being even more obvious that she’s evil than she has been since she stabbed Lilah: check.
Cordy dressing like she raided Morticia Addams’ maternity wear: check.
As others have noted above, the real problem with Gunn is that the writers haven’t really been able to figure out his role in Team Angel. Wes and Fred have the brains done, Conner and Angel are the muscle and Lorne and Cordy have the mystical connections down. Gunn is left without a job most of the time, which was made obvious with Angel’s instructions to him being “stay on deck.”
It’s not, however, like this episode wasn’t without some good Gunn moments like his being able to talk his way past the security guards or smacking down the goons. But you knew (wink, wink) that Gwen wasn’t telling the whole truth. Nothing in her past indicated that she’d go to such lengths for a noble cause.
Gunn’s decision to help her would’ve been more believable had she come clean with him that the gizmo was to help her switch her powers off when he realized she had lied about the kidnapping, rather than just give him the “you had fun, didn’t you?” line.
And the Cordy trap was fairly obvious and I suspect Angel had already figured it out when he was taunting her about how the Big Bad making it up as it went all. Hëll, Conner isn’t exactly the sharpest stake in the weapons cabinet, but if even he can see that she’s been manipulating things, the others had to have put the pieces together.
Oh well, the past few episodes have been very strong, I guess an occassional turkey can be forgiven.
Gunn’s comment that for the past year he felt like he’d been stuck in a “turgid, supernatural soap opera” had me laughing out loud.
Cordy’s obviously being controlled by the baby. Would the Cordelia Chase we know ever wear such a skanky outfit–especially when she’s eight months pregnant?
I can’t believe no one commented on the most worthy part of the whole show…
The scene between Fred and Wes. Wes has become a great character, and I think Fred needed to hear that.
I also think that Wes needed to meet Willow last week to show that as “dark” as he had become, he could have done a lot worse.
Eh, I agree with most everybody… but that two minute scene with Wes and Fred made the show.
Travis
I’ve mentioned this before but the “butching up” of Wesley (was this at the actor’s request?) seems to have rendered Gunn superfluous. Shouldn’t Gunn be the bad-ášš, non-nonsense, it’s all about the mission, demon hunter? Shouldn’t he be the one who is not quite part of the team and who operates with his own agenda?
When Gunn moved into the hotel and started dating Fred (a last ditch effort to give him something to do), all bets were off.
And yes, Connor’s addition also makes Gunn less valuable as the “muscle.”
Re Wesley’s butchification: Well, Alexis Denisof is the guy who, when asked what he wanted to do in “Graduation Day pt 2,” requested to scream like a schoolgirl and get knocked out in the first five seconds. Make of that what you will.
During last week’s Willow visit, I was rather hoping there could’ve been an inside-joke-y kind of exchange like this: Willow is waxing complimentarily about Wes, for whatever reason. Someone like, say, Connor or Gunn could’ve snapped: “Well, if you like him so much, why don’t you just marry the guy!”!
Hooper
Anybody else think Cordy looks just like Lulu from Final Fantasy X? Agree on all other comments: story bad – Gunn superflous – Gwen HOT!!!
To those that think that Gunn has lost his place as “the muscle” of the team since the advent of Connor, I offer this:
I’d gladly sacrifice Connor in favor of Gunn. Connor is ten times more annoying than Dawn ever was. At least Gunn is likeable.
I’m a relative newcomer to ‘Angel’, so this is the first time I’ve ever laid eyes on Gwen. I wish to add my assent to all the posts commenting on how schmokin’ hot she is!!
And that Charles….what a lucky son-of-a-Gunn!!
‘Pop’, indeed!!
…..Okay, that’s out of my system now.
Hooper
I’d gladly sacrifice Connor in favor of Gunn. Connor is ten times more annoying than Dawn ever was. At least Gunn is likeable.
Yeah, I agree, but the problem is, Conner has a reason to be here. He’s Angel’s son and Cody’s love-monkey so he a purpose with the group, even if it’s just to make snide remarks at Angel and doe-eyes at Cordy.
Now that Gunn and Fred are apparently done, what reason does he have to hang around anymore?
I’m still leaning towards the idea that Cordy is an imposter. Remember how Lorne’s “fool proof” spell to restore her memory went snafu and she just happened to “accidently” send Conner to kill Angel? And that was allegedly before she was impregnated.
Also, note that since returning, she never once went back to her old apartment to check on Dennis the Ghost. Maybe he would’ve sensed something was wrong with her.
Well, personally, I enjoyed this episode.
I actually liked Gunn in this episode.
Usually he’s medicore character. Ok, not as bad as Connor (or Cordy as of late) but still..glad to see the writers doing something good/cool with him.
SO I enjoyed the episode. Its obvious that GUNN likes Gwen & thats why he feel for the trap. I mean hey: she flatters him, she doesn’t whine to him (like Fred), she’s hot, & likeable.
I think Gunn & Gwen actually have chemistry together (unlike Gunn/Fred). So hope it works out for them..but I doubt it.
As for the Cordy plot, it was ok. I loved the end. ” Has Cordy been a bad, bad girl? ” And the 8-ball reads: ” Definitly.” heheh. Glad they FINALLY found out!
Anyway, the writers/etc HAVE to keep Lorne! And I hope Gwen is a cast member next season. Hopefully they will get rid of Connor..
DF2506
” And Cordy if she doesn’t get better. And hey, now that we had a good Gunn episode,lets have a good Fred episode! “
It may be they’re setting Gunn up to leave the team, actually. Which would address several peoples’ concerns over his niche in the group; he could go back to being a freelancer who helps them when needed would bring him on when needed (and might not reduce his screen time much, as witness Wesley last season). This being drama, however, he needs more reason to leave than just ennui, and this episode might have been setup for just that.
In the same vein, I’d sort of like to see Lorne get his own club again or something rather than hanging around the hotel all the time. Not that I don’t like having him around; but when he wasn’t a regular his appearances had more weight (and felt more special) while as a regular they have to make sure his powers don’t short-circuit the plot half the time. It’s not that I want to get rid of anyone, but an overcrowded cast doesn’t do anyone any favors, and better to make it a proactive move than just killing someone because they’ve been superfluous. (Better leaving the team than leaving the show, in other words.)
Actually, I think Gunn’s job on the show since he got there was, essentially, to be “the black guy.” Let’s face it, ME is a pretty Wasp-y world and while they haven’t caught the kind of hëll for it that shows like “Friends” have, I think that Gunn’s character was added during a season when the topic was getting a lot of play. Now there’s no question that African-American is not a character trait and it only earns you a spot on the team when they’re coming up with a dull, PC Saturday morning cartoon so it would be nice to see more done with Gunn. I think he had a nice spot before, being the bridge between (for lack of a better term) the sort of superheroes (Buffy, Angel, Cordy with the visions, etc.) and the regular humans who fight vampires. But everybody is right that Wesley has taken over as the Human Badass and Connor has taken over as the one guy in the group who still doesn’t trust a vampire as their leader.
Still, I enjoyed the episode. The whole “stealing” thing seemed to me like one of those old-fashioned jewel heist movies. I mean, yeah, stealing is stealing but it just doesn’t *feel* the same when there are tuxes and evening gowns and palaces where sinister and exotic foreigners live. I couldn’t help thinking that I wouldn’t mind watching a spin-off series with Gwen as the Catwoman-type and Gunn as the guy who reigns her in but has just enough rogue in him not to be a nagging wet blanket.
As for “evil Cordy”, well with the whole thing on last week’s episode about “I bit my tongue” and losing the fight to keep Angel’s soul away from him by having a door open unexpectedly, I don’t think she was supposed to be a mastermind.
Last thought, someone tried to bring up last week’s episode:
Best line: “I’m seeing someone.”
The oddest thing to me was the scene between Willow and Wes. It seemed to be a favor to the real life couple since the characters never seemed like they were that close before. It also left us hanging (deliberately?) about what Angel knows about Spike and Buffy and what Buffy knows about Angel and Cordy.
And as far as PAD comparing what Gunn did in last night’s episode to robbing a liquor store (which he really didn’t but don’t make me lose my point because of a detail like the facts…) am I the only one who’s a little disturbed with how Willow still seems to be treating the fact that she flayed a guy alive like a punchline?
Remember that Gunn has spent most of this season trapped in what he called a “turgid supernatural soap opera.” And I agree with him. The episodes up until this point have been tiresome and haven’t given the actors the kind of focus they deserve. Heck, the most memorable thing Gunn did last week was get sucker punched by Junior. So I was pleased with this episode, because it seemed to be a response to my complaints about earlier episodes.
Gunn was certainly too trusting, but I think it all goes back to his eagerness to get out and do some real good. Be useful. He jumped at the chance. Probably not the smartest thing he’s done, but nobody’s perfect. Anyone remember episode 1 when Angel jumped into the wrong car while he was trying to save someone?
As for the rest of the episode, for the first time I enjoyed Cordelia’s performance as the Big Evil. Usually a demon fails when he/she dies, but here’s a demon that’s failed and still lives. She’s trying to hold onto her pride but she’s failing. It was great seeing her get scared and desperate–it’s interesting to see a little bit of vulnerability in the invincible Super Big Evil Demon Cordy Thing.
And was I the only one who entertained the thought that this was Lorne’s last song? There’s nothing more suspicious than putting him in the opening credits.
You get the feeling that somebody’s got a one-track mind and his train just derailed?
So Peter, what’s the deal? Did you stiff a waiter last night? Hit someone’s dog with your car?
Um, actually, no he isn’t.
I’m sorry PAD, that you have to be subjected to such childish, inane, stupid, and crass abuse.
Finally, the long awaited revenge for Billjemas.com is revealled. Good one, Bill.
Re: PAD is a f*: I’m sorry, your answer must be in the form of a question.
Re: Angel review: Liked the Angel episode – didn’t see the Cordelia found-out part coming. So I guess the door’s wide open for Wes and Fred now, huh? I’ve been kind of hoping for those two to get together ever since Wes went all psychopathic in Season 3 and tried to kill Fred. He was SO torn by the end, guess it’s just some Romeo and Juliet part of me wanting to see them together, but hey…
Finally, the long awaited revenge for Billjemas.com is revealled. Good one, Bill.
Now I see what was half crashing my PC every time I tried to log on…
Anyway, it wasn’t the best episode ever, but I enjoyed it more or less. It was nice to see Gunn get out, kick some ášš, and be a real character – even it wasn’t necessarily his character. I really don’t like the Gwen character – it doesn’t seem to me like she’s got a whole lot of chemistry going on with the rest of the cast. Otherwise – I was completely taken in by the Cordy trap, and all set to bemoan Lorn getting the short end of everybody else’s subterfuge and scheming, yet again. Yeah, in retrospect, it should have been obvious right after the “nope, don’t need your help, I need to do it in a dark space all by myself away from everybody” line, but I guess I’m easy sell today.
Now I see what was half crashing my PC every time I tried to log in…
Anyway, it wasn’t the best episode ever, but I enjoyed it more or less. It was nice to see Gunn get out, kick some ášš, and be a real character – even it wasn’t necessarily his character. I really don’t like the Gwen character – it doesn’t seem to me like she’s got a whole lot of chemistry going on with the rest of the cast. Otherwise – I was completely taken in by the Cordy trap, and all set to bemoan Lorn getting the short end of everybody else’s subterfuge and scheming, yet again. Yeah, in retrospect, it should have been obvious right after the “nope, don’t need your help, I need to do it in a dark space all by myself away from everybody” line, but I guess I’m easy sell today.
Oh look!
Someone has shown the 3 year old, lovechild of a pair of incestuous chimpanzees how to cut and paste the word “******”.
Lets all smile and wave at the silly chimp!
I’ll try to squeeze in a legitimate comment here. Hope someone can clean up the spam.
Did anyone else get the feeling this episode was like the original Star Trek episode, called, what was it, “Assignment: Earth”? You know, the one that was essentially a pilot for a new show? This whole episode seemed to be a pilot to spin off Gunn and “Lightning Lass” (love the name, PAD) into their own series, even going so far as LL asking Gunn if he wants to bolt from the team.
Weird deja-vu.
In case anyone wants to know…. Chrisma gave birth on monday, it’s a boy. Lets hpoe they havn’t filmed the season ender of Angel yet so we can have a thin Cordy for the episode.
I really liked the episode. It’s hard to say Gunn acted out of character when his character hasn’t been explored very deeply.
Also, this “weak” episode is stronger than most of the Buffy episodes this year, so by comparison…
I like those red pants. Nice red pants. And CHARACTER! – great, great character.
I like Gunn – he’s just a likeable guy, and I think he would be wasted as “angry loner” on Angel. He and Gwen would probably make for a fun spin-off series: (Lightning) Rod and Gunn.
I liked this week’s episode. As good as the past few weeks? No. It was nice to see Gunn finally get some screen time and I wasn’t bothered by the gang confronting Cordy at the end because one of my pet peeves is stupid heroes and how dumb would they of been NOT to figure it out? That hootchie-mama maternity outfit of Cordie’s should of been clue enough.
Actually, this episode reminded me alot of the Xander ep of BTVS several seasons back, I think it was titled “Zeppo” (where he fought zombies and slept with Faith).
In fact, I think the reason I like Angel so much right now is the entire series has taken on the vibe BTVS had during its peak years (seasons 2-4). Each character is filling a role perfectly and the interactions are making the whole thing click. Think about it:
Fred=Willow (brainy, research-girl, just starting to dabble in mystical stuff)
Gunn=Xander (underappreciated member of the team, keeps things light with quips and jokes)
Wes=Giles (the hero’s adviser, wise leader-type, especially after Giles stopped being portrayed as a FuddyDuddy and took on the more badass “Ripper” persona)
Ironically, Cordy=Angel (love of the hero’s life who ultimately is hero’s deadly enemy, ala Angelus season 2)
and obviously Angel=Buffy (hero, charged with saving the world on a daily basis).
I may
I loved the return of brooding Angel. David Boreanaz is great at conveying his thoughts without saying a word (remember Redefinition). And you got to love it when they’re talking about Angel not being involved with the planning, then he walks out of the office repeats key words from the conversation and tells Wes “I don’t sulk.”
I thought this was pretty much the only passable episode this season, along with the Faith guest appearances. This is the first time I’ve found Gunn likable in AGES and finally all that Cordelia nonsense should be coming to an end.
Bad writing? No worse than the garbage they’ve been filming the rest of the season, but a good deal more enjoyable.
Lets hpoe they havn’t filmed the season ender of Angel yet so we can have a thin Cordy for the episode.
Surely I can’t be the only one who found this comment shockingly shallow…?
Actually, I was wondering about Cordy’s weight, too. I mean, if she gives birth on the show, but is still pregnant in real life (which I assume to be the case – I’m not all that up on the behind-the-scenes stuff) then how will they handle that, other than lame stuff like keeping her in bed or behind tables?