9:37 Home from bowling. Heard some of the debate on the radio. Nothing was being said that was substantially different from what I’ve heard before.
9:39 Kerry is looking right into camera. Is it that someone told him to do so, is the moderator just sitting in front of the camera?
9:40 My God, I’ve never seen Bush’s smirk more pronounced.
9:42 Any Canadians out there with opinions on whether government controlled health care results in poor quality?
9:46 Wait…is that what Bush said? The way that Kerry put it? Did Bush actually say that young people should be able to take money out of SS and put it into accounts? I thought he was just talking about putting money into savings.
9:48 I find that a bit hard to believe, that that tax cut alone would have kept SS going until 2075.
9:52 Okay, seriously. Did Bush have, y’know, a minor stroke on the left hand side of his face? I mean, the sneer is starting to distract me.
9:53 This is the first question to Bush that he hasn’t used to attack Kerry.
9:53: Whoops. Spoke too soon. Got in a shot under the wire.
9:57 That’s an interesting promise, that Kerry will bring the minimum wage up to over $7 an hour. Kerry’s also using the opportunity to target women.
9:58 AW, COME ON. Bush veered jobs over into education, and now he’s veering minimum wage into education? Jesus.
10:00 Holy crap. Two boldly dodged questions by Bush.
10:02 I mean, I hope American women were paying attention to that. Bush’s out and out dodging of the question was not only pathetic, but it really made clear that, hëll yeah, he would want to see Roe v. Wade overturned.
10:04 What the hëll is Bush blinking so much for?
10:07 No, Kerry did NOT talk about a global test in respect to getting permission from other countries to defend himself. Does Bush NEVEr get tired of exaggerating it? Thank God Kerry is meeting that one head on.
10:09 Oh, come on. Bush heard that there wasn’t support for the Assault weapons ban (which I doubt) and therefore decided not to bother to push for it? As if he hasn’t failed to put the full court press to those things that he really DOES believe in.
10:14 I’m not sure if Bush met with the Black Congressional Caucus or not, but he sure as heck didn’t meet with the other organizations Kerry mentioned.
10:17 Jeez, I wish Kerry would find another word to use other than “respect” when it comes to matters of religion.
10:18 Now KERRY swings a question over to education? Oooookay.
10:22 The point isn’t that the country was divided in 2000. The point is that the country was united in 2001 and now is split once again, even worse than before.
10:24 what a powder puff question for the last question in the debate.
10:26 Idear? IDEAR? Kerry can say “nuclear,” but he can’t say “idea?”
10:29 I like the notion that Bush is optimistic. Unfortunately, it doesn’t jibe with many of his speeches that hit again and again sentiments of fear and terror.
I thought Bush’s closing speech was better, but overall Kerry just flat out performed better. I think Bush really hurt himself when he dodged several questions in a row. And I’ll tell you, I was dubious about the whole Bush-listening device thing, but there were moments when it really did look like Bush was listening to someone else talking…Ah well. I dunno.
• 
of note: bush said he does not recall his statement that he was not concerned about osama bin laden, and claimed it was one of those “exagerrations.”
also of note:
Bush, on CNN from 2002:
“I’ll repeat what I said: I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.”
Oh my stars, will Bush please stop with the smile? The boy just looks like a petulant child…. some president…
Ra!
Bush’s campaign jokes are continuing to fall flat in the debate forum. I’m surprised that he hasn’t realized that after 2 previous debates.
“Let me explain this to the elderly…” and “youngsters”. I may simply be overanalyzing as it is a job requirement, but does this seem patronizing to anyone else?
Re 9:42: I was awfully curious about that, too. And whether or not America has a health care system envied across the world, too.
My impression of Bush’s retirment proposal is that it focuses on individual responsibility. People budget for their own retirement. Works fine if you have a high-paying job and a working knowledge of both budgeting and options. Kind of out of touch, unrealistic and elitist in my mind.
Yep, the smirk comes across as arrogant, whether he intends to be or not.
I know a family that live in Italy, which has a government controlled health care system. They had their first child there and they hated it so much that they came to the States for the birth of their second child. They also come here if they need serious medical attention.
Willing worker card?!?! That just screams abuse, how are we going to prove whether or not people are willing to work when you can get an migrant to work for half the price? That’s a joke… grr..
(hmm… which of these guys people let them wear similar ties?)
Ra!
By far the dullest of the debates so far.
If you don’t like Bush you will hate his smile. If you like Bush you will like his smile. By now this should be obvious–what is pleasing to the eye of one is anathema to another. Some look at Ted Kennedy and see a man of towering conviction, while I see someone who should be in the final panel of an EC comic, going “Aieeeee!” as the waterlogged corpse of Mary Jo Kopechne drags him into a pool of quicksand.
Hey Bill, got a drink of choice tonight or did Friday night have you changing your ways?
Kerry says he can up the minimum wage to $7? Is he insane?
Min. wage up to seven bucks? That’s, um, quite interesting. I’d love to see how he’d plan to do that.
*grumble grumble No Child Left Behind grumble grumble*
Jesus is my drug!
Ok, well, actually, I just got so nored I just started rewatching the episode of LOST I’d taped. Holy shnizolla! Nobody saw that one coming! Episode goes right onto the top 20 of all time list. Abrams is a genius.
I love the fact that Bush continues to use the rhetoric and twisted versions of Kerry’s previous statements. I love this simply because the one-trick pony allows Kerry to counter by very publicly dismissing and correcting him. 🙂
hmm… did Bush just say that Reservists are happy to have their terms extended? All the reservists i know feel their doing their duty, but they aren’t exactly happy about it… I guess I must hang out with the wierd Reservists…
Woohoo!!! I can have an AK-47!!! (Who’s goin to the gunshow with me?!?)
Ra!
10:02 I mean, I hope American women were paying attention to that. Bush’s out and out dodging of the question was not only pathetic, but it really made clear that, hëll yeah, he would want to see Roe v. Wade overturned.
Yeah, but who didn’t already know that? He just disavowed any organized attempt to get it repealed.
Kerry says he can up the minimum wage to $7? Is he insane?
No, just blinded by his beliefs.
I missed the first half of LOST. What did I miss, Bill?
On second thought that’s a massive invitation for spoilers in an open thread. Forget I asked.
David, this episode of LOST focused on the back story of bizarre, creepy bald guy. Let’s just say that we are given a very powerful lesson on the dangers of judging on first impressions.
Bush “feels” people praying for him? I need to take another look at the DSM-IV and other criteria for schizophrenia.
you’re an american whether or not you are christian, islam, etc… yea, but we’ll still shove the Ten Commandments down your throat, oh yea… and you better believe in God…
well, aleast Bush didn’t say he was on a crusade again…
Ra
(hmm… Bush’s smirk is really irking me…)
Ye Gods (of your choice)…
Did Bush actually just confirm, in as many words, that this war footing is a *crusade*?????
John M
For once, I’d love for Kerry to say what is one his mind instead of following up with “I respect…”. Wouldn’t it be awesome, if just once, he turned to Bush with his jaw dropped, and utter, “Are you wacky?!?!?”
John,
yea he did, but thank the gods he didn’t actually say Crusade… man…
Ra!
Ya know, as far as the frivalous lawsuits, why on Earth hasn’t Kerry specifically brought up his plan to hold lawyers accountable on a “3 strikes and your out” policy? It is easy to understand and Edwards brought it up. Makes sense and is a no-brainer score for their side.
10:24 what a powder puff question for the last question in the debate.
Well, we do have to leave everyone feeling all happy and squishy.
Oops, not sure about rules of the cameras, but Kerry must have won points with that very timely camera shot of his wife that popped up and humanized him during his response about her and his mom.
As they shook hands and exchanged words, I imagined Kerry telling Bush, “I’m going to kick your butt,” to which Bush replied, “Bring it on, Munster boy.” Kerry does the unthinkable and wins three for three in my view.
And now it’s up to time and the voters. Kerry has made a remarkable come back. He must continue to keep bush on the defensive and expose the straw man.
The president’s closing speech was a home run. He finally got it right. Bush is much more likeable than Kerry, who really couldn’t seal the deal with the question about the women in his life. Bush liked to have welled up while recollecting the day he met Laura, and his self-deprecating humor glossed over the president’s homey clumsiness as a debater. Another fine job by Senator Kerry, but that’s the problem. It was like watching a Meryl Streep film. She’s a fabulous, Oscar-winning actress. You get used to it, used to the skill and ease she has in employing it. I was looking for an electric moment from Kerry that never came. You expect Bush to be a weasel, and al of his weaseling in this debate, I guarantee you, got glossed over by his teary-eyed adoration for his family and his confessions of faith. In fact, the president seemed to have learned from Kerry and went after Kerry aggressively and in a focused, linear way. I think I have to score this a draw, but I’m tempted to tip it to Bush, if not on substance on style. He pasted Kerry in the arena of likeability and he slipped one past Kerry on Kerry’s “retreat and defeat” Iraq policy.
Kerry, I like you a lot more than Bush, but your Min-Wage comment made me cry and throw things. I’m just the DAUGHTER of an Economist and I know how STUPID that plan is.
It’s pretty well known that a high rate of blinking correlates strongly to lying
Peter you missed the start of the debate where Schieffer asked about gay marriage and if the candidates think if homosexuality is choice:
Totally out of the blue Kerry brings up Cheney’s daughter “a lesbian”. I couldn’t help but think of THE DAILY SHOW WITH JON STEWART summarizing Edwards’ response to a similar question in the VP debate, that people admire Vice President Cheney’s love for his *** GAY DAUGHTER ***.
— Ken from Chicago
P.S. Peter, Bush’s smile looks like a smirk–and his wife, Laura, told him to stop scowling. What’s a president gonna do, tick off his opponents or tick off his wife? >=^>
Congressional Black Caucus Chairman Elijah Cummings, 7/16/03:
Hey Ken
They need to keep reminding people about Cheney’s gay daughter. It’s one of the few redeeming qualities I can find in Cheney.
Well in ontario the minimum wage is $7.15 and it will be up to $8.00 in a couple of years, so I don’t know how impossible it is.
As for Health care I’m fairly satisfied with it. Although the Tories (re Conservaties) cur the hëll out of it when they were in power and it’s slowly being repaired unfortunately at a slightly greater cost.
9:42 LOTS of Canadians have opinions on our health care system. Overall it works, but it needs some streamlining and better cost controls. Only a tiny minority of people want to see Canada go over to the US system of private care, perhaps one-thirtieth of the population, and these are the same republican hardliners who wanted to join the US in 1867.
A couple of provinces have minimum wages of $7.50 or higher, and the lowest is $5.50, and economic disaster has not befallen the land. Spyderqueen needs a chill-pill.
I don’t know what’s more entertaining, the commentary on the debate, or skipping it to watch “Hellboy”.
It’s depressing that this year, I only care about who loses.
BRING BACK THE CORPSE OF EISENHOWER!
9:42 Any Canadians out there with opinions on whether government controlled health care results in poor quality?
Jeez, talk about a loaded question. I suppose the short answer would be “sort of.” We have problems with long wait lists for surgery, as well as difficulties in keeping skilled doctors in the country when you folks down south offer much, much more money.
It’s always a huge issue up here, and there are always groups looking to move parts of health care into the private sector. Despite the undeniable problems, I wouldn’t trade our system of universal health care for anything, and can only hope that the U.S. starts to move in that direction as well.
As to whether we Canadians find that a state-run medical system results in lower quality:
Currently there is no national consensus on whether the funds we give to our Provincial and Federal govts are being spent wisely in that area- there is tremendous concern about waits for treatment or procedures. Our PM and the Premiers of the provinces and territories just had a big summit meeting to discuss the allocation of funds to health care, specifically how the feds will distribute the monies they collect to the provincial health ministries.
But- and this is a mighty big but- no politician in the entire country would ever get elected running on a platform of repealing state-funded medicine. Even the advocates of a two-tiered system (99.999% of the time rich folks who want to be able to jump the queue without flying down to the states) do not want to repeal basic coverage for all citizens.
What consensus on health care exists up here is on the point that we absolutely, positively do *not* want a US-style system, where treatment for a life-threatening illness or accident can potentially bankrupt you, your family, and your heirs and assigns. Ask any Canadian you want, they’ll give you the same answer: our system is far from perfect, there is much room for improvement, but it’s a dámņ sight better than the American one.
My 0.02$, for what it’s worth…
“Only a tiny minority of people want to see Canada go over to the US system of private care, perhaps one-thirtieth of the population, and these are the same republican hardliners who wanted to join the US in 1867.”
Wow, those must be some pretty old Canadians. If those creaky old bášŧárdš are still alive and kicking then I guess your health care system is pretty dámņ good after all.
Only a tiny minority of people want to see Canada go over to the US system of private care, perhaps one-thirtieth of the population, and these are the same republican hardliners who wanted to join the US in 1867.
And we worry about OUR aging population.
I have to say right up front, I despise Bush and wish somebody would hit him with one of those giant Soupy Sales powder puffs every time he smirked, but as with the second debate, I’d call this one a draw. I think Kerry could have knocked it out of the park, but he lets too many opportunities go. Instead of turning Bush’s words back on him, which is a very basic debate trick, he seemed intent on sticking to the game, if you’ll excuse the word, plan. And secondly, he lets Bush get away with murder. He let the global test misquote go unanswered for far too long, and now he let Bush float the ‘nuisance’ misquote yet again. And there were at least three opportunities where Kerry gave a nuanced answer where I can see the Republicans put the scissors in, cutting off the caveat and leaving the useful out of context quote. Regarding the previous posters who said Bush did better in talking about his wife, I think Kerry outflanked him beautifully. He knew that his wife wasn’t all warm and fuzzy like Laura Bush, so he played the dying mom card instead. Brilliant.
My predictions for tomorrow? Kerry gets caught out for talking about Bush not meeting with the congressional black caucus (he did). Bush gets caught out for denying the bin Laden quote (MSNBC has already disproved it by showing the original quote tonight). After the spin dies down, they’re going to call this one a draw too. And even one win and two draws for Kerry is bad news indeed for Bush.
Is anybody else getting, like, really tired of Rudy Guliani? I think I’ve counted him spinning on four different networks in the past half hour, two of them at the same time I think. Did you know he was mayor of New York City during 9/11? I think he might have mentioned it in passing at some point. Sorry, my sarcasm chip is overheating.
And did anybody notice for the second debate in a row, it was Bush who broke the rules they’d both signed, by addressing Kerry directly? Having said that, if I was Kerry, I’d be thinking, ‘Third debate, I’ve got nothing to lose!’ and break every dámņ rule there is. What’s Bush going to do, refuse do debate him again?
I didn’t read the above posts, ‘cuz I taped LOST and do *not* want to see any surprises revealed here. I also taped the debate, though I don’t expect any surprises from either one. (“I support making prostitution not only legal, but also mandatory.”)
However, does anyone see a contradiction between Bush’s “culture of life” (opposing abortion) and supporting capital punishment?
Karen: Bush met with the Congressional Black Caucus twice (1/31/01 and 2/25/04). That’s twice more than Kerry claimed he did (although admittedly once fewer than the times Cheney met but didn’t remember meeting Blinky… I mean Edwards).
” your Min-Wage comment made me cry and throw things. I’m just the DAUGHTER of an Economist and I know how STUPID that plan is”
Absolutely, Spyderqueen. Let’s go with the tried and true of paying people as little as we can get away with. That’s always done wonders for the economy, hasn’t it? Well, OK, maybe not the PERSONAL economies of those involved, but, hey, since when did they count?
PAD,
Interesting commentary, but I think you dodged a couple of key moments. Kerry completely evaded the issue of amnesty for illegal immigrants, spending most of his time talking about the previous topic and then weaseling. Of course Kerry and Bush are not really in disagreement on this issue. They both want to grant amnesty which I think is insane. The other key moment is when Bush unequivocally said that he is against a litmust test on abortion for Supreme Court justices and Kerry said he has a litmus test on that and on other issues.
I suspect that all of the endless numbers that both guys were tossing around will be contradicted by fact checkers tomorrow. The question is who made the better impression on undecided voters and I sure don’t know.
Regards,
Dennis
A month or so ago, I was complaining because Kerry had yet to explain specifically what he was going to do, if elected, regarding various key campaign issues. I believe I said “He has no plans.”
Well, he must have heard that from other folks as well, because now Kerry claims to have plans for EVERTHING. Unfortunately, one things the plans generally are not are specific. And in addition to developing this army of plans in a month or so, one thing Kerry did not (or could not) do was explain very well how he was going to PAY for them.
As a matter of fact, whoever is advising Kerry about things financial should be probably find a new profession, because many of the financial numbers Kerry was throwing around during this debate were just plain wrong. His biggest gaffe was that the money lost because of Bush’s tax cut could have funded Social Security until 2076 — another 72 years! I just reviewed the budget numbers based on reports by the CBO and other independent organizations, and if Kerry’s assertion wasn’t so laughably wrong, I would almost be mad.
…and these are the same republican hardliners who wanted to join the US in 1867…
Okay, poorly phrased. Mea culpa.
I just wanted to add that my roommate thinks that bulge on Bush’s back is an armoured vest. He has military experience, so I trust his judgement on this. An armoured vest with an ordinary microphone hook-up worn over it – The same kind Kerry would have been wearing – would be pretty bulky, and tend to pull on Bush’s jacket when he moved. Someone in his team should have checked out how it would look before he went on camera, but either didn’t think about it or didn’t spot the problem. So that left Bush having to deal with a wardrobe malfunction. Maybe he should have worn pasties.
Bush “feels” people praying for him? I need to take another look at the DSM-IV and other criteria for schizophrenia.
I will take that question as meant to be somewhat in jest since it is highly bigoted towards us who are Christians. Go talk to people in high pressure situations (such as suffering from a disease, going through a great tragedy, or having to make difficult decisions), and there are people from many faiths who will tell you that prayer makes a difference and that they knew when others were praying for them. You don’t have to believe it is true, you may say you have never experienced it, but it is absurd to say I am crazy because I know I have experienced it for myself.
Jim in Iowa