Looking at “Heroes” and “Battlestar: Galactica,” I combine the two shows to come up with our new spoiler-filled slogan:
“Save Starbuck. Save the Show.”
BATTLESTAR: GALACTICA–If there was any single character in the whole of BSG who seemed destined for self-destruction, it was Starbuck. But BSG took a bizarre way of approaching it, having that self-destruction result not from depression, from recklessness, from a loss of hope…but rather as some sort of upbeat, spiritual, “I’m no longer afraid of death” moment.
Which would have been fine if I’d ever gotten the impression that Kara was afraid of death in the first place. As self-destructive as her behavior has been shown to be, once she was behind the stick, she had as much self-preservation instinct as anyone else. We’ve seen her wounded, we’ve seen her stranded, we’ve seen her facing death every which way and she was never deterred by it. So basically we’re left with a conflicting message: That she has managed to overcome her personal demons (traceable to her mother, there’s a shock: You almost want everyone who has ever blamed their miseries on their parents to have a sit down with Lucy Van Pelt’s therapy booth so she can say, “Get over it. Five cents please”) so that, no longer daunted by death, she embraces it. The hallmark of BSG is mixed messages, but I have to admit it left me saying, “Huh?”
I mean, was it compelling? Sure. DId it leave me gasping in shock at the end, even though the producers had been advertising that there would be unexpected deaths this season? Yeah. Did it leave me wondering how the hëll Lee Adama is going to come back from this since basically this one’s on his head: Starbuck wanted to ground herself and Lee was the one who insisted that she get back out there…to disastrous results. That simply *has* to be dealt with.
Have we seen the last of Kara? I wouldn’t bet on it. First of all, blondes named Kara have a habit of coming back. Trust me on that. Second, there’s two obvious outs: Number one, she was seen eyeing what had to be the eject lever. She could have blown the hatch and ejected before the destruction, and with zero visibility and the DRADIS nonfunctional, Lee wouldn’t have known. So she could still be alive. Number two, between all her talk of not being afraid of the other side, and the five unknown Cylons dwelling in a sort of between-death void, it leaves open the notion that she’s one of the five remaining.
Powerful viewing that was also disconcerting and annoying. Still, I have to think BSG is gonna take a hit in terms of fan support for this one, a hit that could conceivably damage the show especially when one considers that between the departure of Lucy Lawless’s Cylon, the death of Kat and now of Starbuck, strong female characters are dropping like flies. Short term shock value could be hurt by long term anger.
Save Starbuck. Save the show.
HEROES–You have to love a series with a clear idea of what it’s doing and a confident narrative thread. The casting remains pitch perfect as Malcolm McDowell shows up as the mysterious Linderman. It takes a confident evil mastermind to have a meeting while wearing an apron. The Red Skull wouldn’t be caught dead doing it; Lex Luthor neither. Okay, maybe the Joker, and Doc Doom is already wearing a miniskirt, but otherwise, props to Linderman. I may have heard wrong, but I could swear the two FBI guys were named Alonso and Quesada. I wonder what I’d have to do to have a character named after me and killed in “Heroes,” ’cause that would be cool. I can’t believe how thrilled I was to see Hiro’s sidekick, Ando, make his triumphant and well-timed…if somewhat unlikely…return. The battle of nerves between Sylar and Soresh was positively unnerving. I had thought that HRG would have no memory of Claire at all, so it’s good to see that his character wasn’t simply taken out of the hunt entirely…although I still have to think he was up and around pretty dámņëd fast for a guy who just took a bullet in the gut (unless there’s a super healer in the mix and I just missed that.) The ultimate cliffhanger of the episode was, of course, not much of a cliffhanger at all considering we know that Peter can imitate Claire’s healing capability. I would SO love to see him kick Sylar’s ášš. We’ll have to wait until April 23, obviously, to see if that happens.
PAD
• 
Peter was one of the only two really safe characters on the show (the other being Hiro) because of the “Shatterfist Principle.”
Now that Peter has his scar, all he has to do is meet up with Hiro once, and then he’s fair game to die.
Can you say “squashed like a bug”? Hey, Peter, remember what you did to that other guy before? Well, do it again. Only don’t hold back this time.
Although it would also be funny (if admittedly unlikely) to have the invisible man turn out tohave changed his mind and started shadowing Peter again such that he arrives just in time to, er, blindisde Sylar (no pun intended, honest.)
>and Doc Doom is already wearing a miniskirt …
But not nearly as well as the new character (lust, drool…). Question for today – is she a genuine metamorph, or ‘merely’ an illusionist?
That brings up an interesting question: Is the future still the same?
Now that Peter has the healing ability, how exactly would he get a scar? If he has no scar, then the Peter the “future” Hiro knew, no longer exist.
Very much in agreement about that BSG episode, and I was surprised at how little her “death” impacted me.
FYI, Peter, in case you hadn’t heard… you were namechecked by George Takei on yesterday morning’s Howard Stern show, in the context of “The Captain’s Daughter”.
George also dropped a Heroes semi-spoiler about what his character may be doing in future episodes, and it got me excited to say the least.
Well, Claire’s healing ability works EXCEPT… when it involves her brain. The one time she didn’t heal, she had a huge splinter in her head and it didn’t start working until that was removed.
So, Peter could die if his brain were removed and maybe that’s why he scars…since his brain is being affected.
Or maybe I’m BSing. 🙂
I owe Sylar a little if that was Peter’s annoying “emo curl” that hit the floor.
Mama Petrelli has real purpose! Yay!
Linderman is a totally awesome mastermind. Gotta love a guy who stares down a man with a gun and says “Well, now you can’t have any of my pot pie.”
It’s the kind of role McDowell does best.
The StarWolf :
She’s an illusionist; not only did she take the form of Simone but she hid the real body (watch closely).
Peter’s ability to draw on another person’s powers might be unconsciously activated, but it’s activated nonetheless. Maybe he chooses to leave the scar intact and not heal it, to remind himself of some lesson he learned when he got it?
Ooh, that brings all sorts of interesting ideas to mind. I’m probably wrong, though. 🙂
Yeah, I can’t quite believe that Starbuck is actually dead either. (C’mon Starbuck? Not likely.)
I would SO love to see him kick Sylar’s ášš.
DITTO! That guys is one I love to hate. Along with Nathan- but they kinda redeemed him making him an informant and all- which kinda ticks me off. I really did love to hate him too.
Is no one talking about how Ando miraculously appeared to save Hiro? Ando is up to something. He’s not who he says he is. He’s either a mole working for Papa Nakamura or a mole working against Papa Nakamura.
And I was almost sorry to see Suresh go. Now I’m upset they didn’t just kill him. But at least he’s starting to become cool.
Someone on Livejournal pointed out similarities to classic BSG with regards to The Five and Starbuck and Apollo having special powers. Apparently there’s an episode where Starbuck meets five people in robes and afterwards knows the way to Earth. I’m not a fan of the classic series so I know nothing about it, personally.
Hey, Brad! What was the semi-spoiler?
Oh and with BSG:
At least I got to say:
“O My God! You Killed Starbuck! You Bášŧárdš!”
That was kinda fun.
BSG: If Starbuck really is dead then I’m annoyed, not because of death, it happens (just ask every actually enjoyable character who is no longer on Lost), but because of how pathetic that death was. They pulled a Star Trek: Next Gen. and DS9 where a main character (Yar and Dax)is off the show and they kill her in a sudden and hopeless situation, a reverse Deus Ex Machina. They don’t go out in a blaze of glory, even Kat got that, they are merely smeared from existence by the finger of the all powerful third person omniscient. It’s weak writing, especially considering that they still didn’t explain the whirly pool rainbow meaning. Great storm effect though.
Heros: Keeps getting better but proves once again that Mohinder would make a perfect Bond villain. Let’s tie up the guy who could ruin all our plans and TALK to him. Then let him have 20 different ways to escape and then give him all the time in the world to recover. “Do you expect me to talk ?” “No Mr. Sylar, I expect you to die.” Just sad. You can get spinal fluid from a dead guy. Ðámņ plot driven drivel.
Re Heroes:
Perhaps Peter chooses to keep the scar for some reason. Maybe because he remembers that “Future Hiro” mentioned it; maybe as a reminder to go into Lamont Cranston mode when entering a darkened apartment.
As to Mr. Bennett, it looks like he was shot in the side, not the gut.
Another hiatus? For seven weeks? Are they nuts? We no longer live in a world where network TV didn’t have competition from cable, Internet, DVDs, videotapes and satellite programming. How many people will find something else to occupy their time during those seven weeks and not return?
In point of fact, a co-worker of mine didn’t return to Heroes after the hiatus between November and January. Instead, she started watching 24 and has become caught up in that show.
(O.K., that decision was, in part, enforced by others in her home, but she told me Heroes’ long absence made that switch easier.)
Another co-worker offered the theory that this hiatus is taking place so the season will end in May. So what if it doesn’t? I recently purchased season two of the original Star Trek on DVD and noted that the last episode of that season, “Assignment: Earth”, aired sometime in March. So ending a season before May isn’t unheard of.
There are other, more recent examples as well, but I haven’t time to list them.
Don’t have cable so I didn’t see Battlestar Galactica, but a friend recently loaned me the season 1 DVD set, and I enjoyed it a lot. He also has season 2, so I hope to borrow that in the near future.
Rick
Rick – it sucks, and it is arguably defunct – but networks still live by Nielsen ratings and May is the biggest sweeps period of the year. If you have a television show, you’re going to have its finale in may so you can do a ratings drive.
I hate it, but that’s the way it is right now. Though, it seems to be slowly dying. FINALLY!
Working backwards…
Rick:
Another hiatus? For seven weeks? Are they nuts? We no longer live in a world where network TV didn’t have competition from cable, Internet, DVDs, videotapes and satellite programming. How many people will find something else to occupy their time during those seven weeks and not return?
In point of fact, a co-worker of mine didn’t return to Heroes after the hiatus between November and January. Instead, she started watching 24 and has become caught up in that show.
Apparently the two hiatuses had been planned from the get-go of the season, so that they was no new episode-rerun-rerun-new episode-new episode-rerun*3 like what Lost went through last season. I think that’s more of a momentum killer, personally. “Is Heroes a rerun this week? Yeah, I don’t know either, but it has been for the past two weeks. Screw it, let’s go to the movies. Wait, it was a new one? Dammit! Well, let’s just get the rest of the series on DVD.”
As for the 24/Heroes conflict, this would’ve been a huge source of discord between my fiance and I *if* I hadn’t treated myself to a DVR this Christmas. I love both shows, but she loves Heroes way more. Now we’re able to watch them both. If you have the means, I highly suggest picking one up.
crane:
They pulled a Star Trek: Next Gen. and DS9 where a main character (Yar and Dax)is off the show and they kill her in a sudden and hopeless situation, a reverse Deus Ex Machina. They don’t go out in a blaze of glory, even Kat got that, they are merely smeared from existence by the finger of the all powerful third person omniscient. It’s weak writing, especially considering that they still didn’t explain the whirly pool rainbow meaning.
I wouldn’t necessarily call it weak writing, as people die in senseless, tragic ways every day. In the case of actors leaving shows, we always know “Oh, the actor is leaving the show.” so it makes us want the characters death to mean more. People die in non-special ways all the time, and it’s hard to achieve that in fiction because we know that there’s always someone pulling the strings, and that they made the choice “Hey, I’m going to have that guy get hit by a bus.” I think they did it really well on Buffy with her mom’s death. No being eaten by a hungry, psycho crocodile, just a natural death. In the cases you cited it wasn’t natural, but still, these are folks in high risk professions. How many movies or shows like that does the hero *almost* die because they noticed something just in time. Sometimes, that don’t work out to well.
I’d have a real hard time not believing that Starbuck will be be back, either picked up by the Cylon raider (which it seemed like Lee saw at the end there) or if she’s one of the final five, which will then leave a final four. And then there’ll be a big basketball tournament to see who gets Earth.
Heroes: I love the new partner for HRG. She’s super hot. Not just because she’s attractive and wearing a short skirt, but she’s also got an evil confidence that I just love. She’s much more of a “femme fatale” than a lot of the comic women we see with a gun and a square foot of cleavage.
One other thought:
It’s been said that no “villain” casts himself/herself as the villain. With that in mind, by what rationale does Sylar believe himself to be in the right, that his actions are both appropriate and necessary? I know he talks about about having a purpose in life, and about “fixing” people who are broken; but what’s his impetus for taking on the powers of those he kills? Does he believe all the powers should reside in him (because no one else can be trusted with them), and that he will then be able to make the world a better place?
Or should we consider him a semi-tragic character, unable to stop himself? I believe he has referred to a hunger, or words to that effect, which drives him.
If the latter’s the case, then maybe Sylar was begging for his life when talking with Mohinder. Or that part of him that knew he was in the wrong.
Rick
P.S. Speaker, true May is a big sweeps month, but as I said some shows have ended their seasons before May, and some much more recently than Star Trek. But maybe those shows were either doing so well or so poorly that the may sweeps wouldn’t have made any impact.
Great “Heroes” episode. It was great to see Nathan and Niki acting more heroic (or trying to, in Nathan’s case). And Mr. Bennet almost completing the transition to full heroic status.
I must have shouted a thousand of times for Mohinder to just kill the slimeball and be done with it, but I also knew Sylar wouldn’t die so early in the season. But yeah, it was funny to see the hero/villain dynamic inverted for once, with the good guy rambling and the bad guy escaping.
Mr. Linderman’s intro: bizarre, in a good sort of way. I was expecting to see him in some huge, ominous, dark office, never expected to meet him in a kitchen.
Peter lost the famous bangs. Lots and lots of Heroes female fans will not like that development one bit.
D.L. and Micah are the most under-utilized characters in the show. They have such cool powers, but since Episode 12 they have barely appeared. But I bet D. L. will come to Niki’s rescue now, or something (the picture she left for him to find must have some purpose).
They want to make us believe that Isaac is so dead, so dead, that I wouldn’t be surprised if he somehow lives.
The only two things I disliked about the Episode? The new superhuman, the illusion girl, she was so despicable and arrogant that I wanted to kill her every time she appeared. But maybe that was intentional, since she is a villain and all.
Ando’s return also was a bit too much to swallow. Poor, hapless Ando is James Bond now? But I know, I know, it’s heartwarming to see him acting the hero for once. Still, I’d like a better explanation for how he snuck into the casino.
I was kind of disappointed in the kitchen scene with Linderman. If Joss Whedon were writing it I think Nathan would have just shot like 5 times him leaving us the viewer (and Whedon’s writing staff) to think: “Now what the hëll do we do?”
(And probably a member of the kitchen staff screaming “Oh my God, You killed Linderman! You Bášŧárd!)
I’m just getting sick of Nathan acting predicably. I swear, if Stalin came back from the grave and offered this guy help for his campaign he would at least sit him down for coffee. Just once I’d like him to act like there is certain things he won’t do to get elected.
Every time I see him and Hiro together I get encouraged though.
Speaking of predictable, what do you want to bet that once Peter thinks he has Sylar right where he wants him, Sylar will turn the tables on him and/or escape. It seems to be a continuing theme on the show.
To paraphrase Bill Cosby’s Brown Hornet, “Thanks to Sylar’s superpowers he naturally escapes–UNHARMED!”
–Captain Naraht
You know, I still can’t quite believe it in terms of the BSG episode. I was stunned to put it mildly. I hadn’t done a great deal of peeking around the Internet prior to the episode and have to admit to being caught totally off guard.
That being said, I actually thought it retrospect it was an excellent episode. I caught the rerun later on that evening to see if I had somehow missed something but, I hadn’t.
See, the reason I thought it was a great episode was because Kara died and everything about this season pointed to something like this happening.
She wasn’t written as self-destructive?
I keep flashing back to the spot earlier in the season where we see her and Lee finally consummating their relationship only to have Lee wake up, find her gone, walk into camp and find her married. There’s sure to be a lot of fallout over the next (last) three episodes of the season.
Is Kara one of the remaining five?
I really wouldn’t bet on it – she has mom, remember? None of the Cylons/human models so far can attest to having any kind of family.
Would I like to see them bring her back?
No, not really.
The great thing about the characters death which I think has been missed so far in the discussion is just how dámņ senseless it was.
BSG is always talked about in terms of using SciFi as a framework to speak about the issues of the day. What could more appropriate than having a character die a senseless death.
As sad as it as, as tragic as it is, and no matter how much we as the audience might want Starbuck to go out in some kind of blaze of glory or heroic sacrifice the truth is you have a character who has been through the mill over the last two years and seen a lot of people die, been in a lot of combat and ultimately it takes its toll.
Kara Thrace needed something, anything to give her hope and she had lost it all, her words throughout the episode evidence that and her scene with Lee talking about being back where they started sums it up. She was a victim of battle fatigue, is it really so surprising when you think about it?
Yeah, she had her hand on the eject lever. Yeah, there was a Cylon ship that no one else seemed to see throughout the episode floating around out there. Could she have ejected and been picked up by the Cylons (perhaps Leobin?). I guess.
I would hope they don’t do that though because it would lessen the impact of what is a very powerful episode and one, which will force all the BSG characters down new paths because of it.
Heroes?
Count me among those who are a big fan of Ando. He is the Sancho Panza to Hiro’s Don Quixote. Hiro is a much better character with Ando to play off of.
Is there anyone else who gets the feeling Nathan Petrelli could be the big villain of the piece. The corrupted Superman? A hero with the best of intentions but who loses his way – the absent father, the failed husband, the disappointing son? Given his decision not to off Linderman could he in fact become Linderman’s biggest weapon down the road?
I was really excited when Mohinder had nailed Sylar and terribly disappointed when the tables were turned. Why Sylar allowed him to take the spinal fluid is beyond me unless he was still under the influence of the IV.
Can we just kill off Niki’s character already? How high does her body count have to get before she gets it? Is her number of kills bigger than Sylar’s? What does it take to just say she is a villain?
Oh and in regard to both shows (and this goes for LOST too), just do a full season without breaks! This stopping and starting thing going on in TV programming is just maddening.
“Or should we consider him a semi-tragic character, unable to stop himself? I believe he has referred to a hunger, or words to that effect, which drives him.”
Sylar is crazy. I don’t think he has some neat rational explanation for why he is supposedly justified in what he does. He was just an insignificant guy that wanted so very much to be special, and now acquiring new powers has become an addiction and a thrill he can’t resist.
“I was really excited when Mohinder had nailed Sylar and terribly disappointed when the tables were turned. Why Sylar allowed him to take the spinal fluid is beyond me unless he was still under the influence of the IV.”
I probably have to watch it again, but Mohinder needed the spinal fluid to do something to further his research, right? And Sylar WANTS Mohinder to complete the research so he’ll have access to a bigger list of supers to prey upon? At least that was the idea I got.
“Can we just kill off Niki’s character already? How high does her body count have to get before she gets it? Is her number of kills bigger than Sylar’s? What does it take to just say she is a villain?”
At least to me, what makes her *not* a villain is that it’s only her alternate personality that kills, not Niki herself. Niki always tries to do the right thing.
Heroes was another great episode, yes. And the agents were indeed named Quesada and Alonso. I chuckled when they appeared, and cheered when they died. Not that I wish their namesakes harm, but it was just plain hilarious. Peter, I totally get your desire to see ‘you’ up there and die, I’ve long wanted to see my own name in a comic. That would make me grin endlessly.
Ugh, that sounds like me begging for a namedrop somewhere. =P
“You have to love a series with a clear idea of what it’s doing and a confident narrative thread.” Indeed I do, and that’s why I loved Babylon 5, and a few other shows before and since. B5 truly spoiled me for television programming. Even Prison Break, as corny as it can be, still has that sense of “Yes, we have a plan” and so I sit back and enjoy the ride.
Jason
“I really wouldn’t bet on it – she has mom, remember? None of the Cylons/human models so far can attest to having any kind of family.”
Hera.
First, we’ve no clear idea how the human Cylons are actually first created/born/developed. Second, we’ve no reason to assume that Kara’s mother was her birth mother.
PAD
Heroes:
The “big” cliffhanger for me wasn’t the Sylar/Peter ending. AFter all, Peter will just absorb Sylar’s T.K. and escape (I’m actually looking forward to a fight between two “heroes” with multiple powers each) No, for me the big cliffhanger is between HRG and the Organization. That’s where things have finally come to a head.
Hey Pete….
Nothing is forever….They killed Obi Wan and brought him back (sort of) : they brought Spock back from certain doom, why cant they do it with Kara Thrace? She doesn’t have to be a Cylon to do this… Remember, they killed Apollo in the original series, and he was brought back by the “City of Lights”… ( loved the cool white uniforms!)
Short term shock value could be hurt by long term anger.
That’s the same way I felt about Buffy. Joss Whedon went to that well a few times too often, and always seemed to be doing it to his female characters. The cumulative effect brought the show down. I hope Ron Moore isn’t making the same mistake.
Disclaimer: I didn’t like this week’s BSG before I even saw it, knowing that Starbuck’s death was coming.
But I really really didn’t like it after listening to Ron Moore’s podcast describing the process of how this came to be.
I may be blinded by my going-in dislike of the while thing, but this is what I got from the podcast:
1) Writers start writing the annual ‘frak with Starbuck’ episode. (Why is this the only thing they can write for her when she is ‘showcased’?)
2) Writers write the basic plot as we got it aired, only Starbuck is not slated to die. She backs away from the abyss. Writers struggle with the unsatisfying ending this produces. (Why isn’t choosing to live an unsatisfying ending?)
3) Ron Moore weighs in to discussions amongst the writers with the opinion that for this story to work, the ending would have to be that Starbuck dies. After initial scoffing from writers, Moore and David Eick decide this ‘audacious’ plot twist is indeed the way to go, and sells it to the writers and the network. History plays out as we got to see.
That, to me, is bunk. They basically over the 3 seasons wrote the character into such a hole that when they decide to push her to the edge one more time, they can’t find any way out of their own plot-history except to just write her out.
The only amusing thing was the podcast recap that the ship model Adama trashes at the end was actually a museum piece costing 6 figures that the show was renting. Destroying it was not in the script — Olmos did it spur of the moment.
The only fault I found with Heros was that watching the opening credits, as soon as I saw Malcom McDowell’s name I knew who was playing Linderman – why keep up the big teaser secret to blow it 40 minutes before what would have been a really cool reveal?
And as to Ando showing up at the last minute – I hate to suggest this & someone might beat me up for doing so – but with this show it seems possible that he too may now be one of Linderman’s agents.
hëll, Mama Petrelli knows the Hatian and Papa Nakumura turned out to be one of HRG’s bosses – anyone could be in cahoots with anyone!
The only fault I found with Heros was that watching the opening credits, as soon as I saw Malcom McDowell’s name I knew who was playing Linderman – why keep up the big teaser secret to blow it 40 minutes before what would have been a really cool reveal?
And as to Ando showing up at the last minute – I hate to suggest this & someone might beat me up for doing so – but with this show it seems possible that he too may now be one of Linderman’s agents.
hëll, Mama Petrelli knows the Hatian and Papa Nakumura turned out to be one of HRG’s bosses – anyone could be in cahoots with anyone!
The only fault I found with Heros was that watching the opening credits, as soon as I saw Malcom McDowell’s name I knew who was playing Linderman – why keep up the big teaser secret to blow it 40 minutes before what would have been a really cool reveal?
And as to Ando showing up at the last minute – I hate to suggest this & someone might beat me up for doing so – but with this show it seems possible that he too may now be one of Linderman’s agents.
hëll, Mama Petrelli knows the Hatian and Papa Nakumura turned out to be one of HRG’s bosses – anyone could be in cahoots with anyone!
I didn’t interpret Starbuck’s fear as being fear of death, necessarily, although it certainly could have been that.
I thought perhaps she was no longer afraid of facing her past, remembering her mother, facing this destiny everyone has been telling her about, etc. I agree with you that she’s a self-destructive character, but I didn’t think she was interpreting her own actions as suicide. And I think they may yet turn out not to be that.
Although it looks as though several strong female characters are gone, several remain: Roslin, Dee, Six, Sharon. Possibly Seelix will step up to be a strong character.
Since Lawless had a limited contract, that was going to happen no matter what. Not sure what the decision to kill Kat was about, but boy, was I glad to see that character go.
Starbuck… the verdict is still out….
Just once I’d like [Nathan] to act like there is certain things he won’t do to get elected.
i think his hesitation in killing Linderman had more to do with the possibility that Lindy actually has the answers he professes to have, re: the powers, than his desire to get elected.
Peter…one of the main characters is named for you. What more do you want?:)
I think we’re seeing the beginning of the Dark Ando saga.
re Nathan. You don’t cast Adrian Pasdar to be good. You cast him to become corrupted with power!
I was wondering while watching if Mohinder filled the syringe up to 11.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I found it interesting that Hiro and Ando didn’t teleport until after Ando closed his eyes… hmmmmm…
The only thing stopping me from thinking Ando is the one with power (or a focusing power?) is the fact that Hiro first utilized his powers without Ando knowing (the office clock, the first NYC trip). After seeing Hiro’s dad as a “company man” I briefly wondered if Hiro really had any powers at all (otherwise wouldn’t Papa have turned him in?)
Anyway, now that we sort of have a name for HRG’s organization — “the company,” I know most people would say “ahh, the CIA.” I think it’s just a writerly riff… Ordinary men finding themselves “in the company of heroes.”
Anyone else get the feeling that Heroes is kinda like the “Wild Cards” series minus the Jokers and minus the worldwide knowledge of their existance?
“And as to Ando showing up at the last minute – I hate to suggest this & someone might beat me up for doing so – but with this show it seems possible that he too may now be one of Linderman’s agents.”
You know, particularly if Linderman and Hiro’s dad are in cahoots, taht actually makes sense. Be a helluva reveal, wouldn’t it.
PAD
Starbuck dying didn’t bother me that much, but not because it was a good plot twist. I was just glad something finally woke me up after the slowest, most pointless episode of the show I’ve seen.
When Kara started having visions, I thought she was crazy. That made me not care, because crazy ramblings are just crazy ramblings, they’re all interchangeable without deeper meaning. It got better once they got to her mother because that added some meaning to things.
Then they got into the mysticism with the cylon in her head. Either she was really crazy or that was magic. I don’t like when the show relies on unexplainable magic. It doesn’t seem to actually mean anything or add up to anything. I don’t want to say it’s lazy writing, but it doesn’t engage me.
Come on, mysticism has been a *huge* part of this show since (at least) the episode where they had to secure the Cylon tyllium mine. First was Laura’s vision of the snakes crawling around on her podium during the press conference, then the High Priestess of Vague Mysticism (tm Strega, of TWoP) explains about the Scrolls of Pythia, and how they describe the “dying leader” having a vision of “serpents, numbering ten and two” (and then Starbuck comes up with the plan to sneak a small attack force past the Cylons by decoying them away with the RTFF, then dumping twelve Vipers [“serpents, numbering ten and two”] out of a freighter’s cargo hold), continuing through the return to Kobol (and its “price in blood”, as they lose Elosha, Socinus, and Crashdown), on up through at least Three’s vision of “the space between life and death.”
And when Three saw what was there, she apologized. “I’m sorry – I didn’t know…” Maybe she didn’t see the famed Final Five Cylons. Maybe what she saw was Kara’s Special Destiny, or the Lords of Kobol themselves, or just the colossal arrogance of assuming they must be the chosen tools of God just because they’ve got a huge hate on for their old masters…
I also have to say that I don’t think Kara died in that explosion. First off, I really don’t think all this ink is going to be spilled about “the Special Destiny” when all it involves is dying pointlessly. Second, what she’d made peace with wasn’t dying – she’d been looking forward to that for a long time – it was the fulfillment of whatever this “destiny” was. She’d held back when it presented itself before, because she was afraid of it. Afraid not to be “the steely-eyed Viper jock” any more, because she had no idea what she could possibly be beyond that.
(Blame that one on her mother, who thought the only way to prepare her daughter for Specialness was by trying to turn the poor girl into a cold-hearted tin-plated warrior bìŧçh just like good ol’ Mom. She apparently was one of those who thought love was a weakness, which is probably why she wasn’t married to Mr. Concert Pianist Thrace any more.)
And third, this time around, the Heavy Raider wasn’t illusory. When Apollo managed to get a visual on Starbuck, the Heavy Raider was flying just above and port. If he’d had eyes for anything besides the impending death of his wingleader/best friend/sometime lover, he would have seen it himself. And the Heavy Raider is the model that carries passengers.
So, I see two plausible ways Starbuck can be back. One is that she returns as a sort of angel, a messenger from the Lords of Kobol to the Fleet (which makes the presentation of the winged Aurora icon make some sort of sense). The other is that she ejected at the last minute, was captured by a Leoben on the Raider, and will have to escape (probably thanks to Leoben letting his guard down around her – he’s done it at least six times before) and steal a Raider – a process she’s already figured out, and this time there’s no bullet hole to patch!
“Hera.
First, we’ve no clear idea how the human Cylons are actually first created/born/developed. Second, we’ve no reason to assume that Kara’s mother was her birth mother.—PAD”
I had to stop for a second and think who Hera was.
Hera isn’t one of the 12 models though.
Also, Hera may be the equivalent of a mule for all we know. Thing is, the Cylons thought Hera’s birth was as much of an event as the humans did. The fact they were so overwhelmed by a human/cylon hybrid birth speaks to the fact it hadn’t happened before.
As I pondered it a bit more, it seems this could go one of two ways.
You bring Starbuck back having after she has been captured and held by the Cylons who were in that ship which was not her imagination at all but a real ship using the storm as cover to keep track of the fleet (which is what I think is more likely although, I am hoping they don’t bring the character back at all).
If she were to turn out to be a Cylon and again, I think this is highly doubtful, remembering all the speculation about Baltar being a Cylon earlier in the season.
Let’s say for arguments sake that the Cylons did too good a job with the first five models. In attempting to construct a more human-looking Cylon in an attempt to mimic their creators, the Cylons were too successful in the original five identified more as human beings than they did as Cylons.
If this is the case, it would go a long way to the plot point of current Cylon society not discussing the original five because they are viewed as both failures and outcasts.
In that instance you could bring Starbuck back as one of the original five.
I have a sense there may be something of that (more about the first five models) in the last three episodes of the season.
Six Feet Under did a great job in displaying the randomness surrounding death – Starbuck dying the way she did says a lot more about a character finally succumbing to a lifetime of bad choices and giving up.
Seeing enemies when they aren’t any there? Feeling a certain amount of futility after being a prisoner for several months and still not really recovering from it? You can’t downplay the kind of wringer they’ve put the character through over the last three years.
Everything in that last episode said a lot about the character being tired, it’s all there you just have to go back and look at it again. It just seems to be the classic signs of battle fatigue, which could speak a lot about what is going on for a generation of soldiers right now.
Also, getting back to the Hera point. Just what were the Cylons doing on Caprica then in that clinic where Starbuck was held? Were they trying to breed their own human/cylon hybrids? You get a sense the humanoid models are constructed without a womb per se. The resurrection ship doesn’t appear to have been stocked with humans birthing Cylons.
Re: Peter vs. Sylar:
What Peter SHOULD do is telekinetically twist Sylar’s head about 180 degrees around before the killer even realizes he’s in danger.
I don’t think he knows Pete has the same telekinetic powers he possesses, so I doubt he’d be able to defend against a sudden, unexpectedly lethal attack.
What will more likely happen is that Peter will just “push” him flying back across the room, and quickly turn invisible.
And that won’t do him a lot of good, since Sylar recently stole the one power (super-hearing), that renders invisibility pretty much useless.
Whatever the outcome, it’s going to be a long wait until April 23.
Re: BSG and Starbuck’s “death”
I really think there’s something much bigger coming with this. Remember – Starbuck’s “destiny” has been referenced since season one (I think, during her interogation of Leoben). It was absolutely played up during this episode, but we never hear what that destiny is. And the “Leoben who isn’t really Leoben” — Yet another mystery.
Although I have to agree with PAD – they’ve never really played her as afraid of death, just reckless and a fighter.
While I don’t think the character will be back as we know her, I do think that something is brewing. Being someone who loves a surprise, I think I’ll stop trying to figure it out and just enjoy the ride. 🙂
Bill, regarding the BSG Podcast. Moore also said that although the idea to kill Starbuck instead of her coming back from the Abyss one more time just came up in the writer’s room, her death helped support their mysteriou long-range plans for the show. I don’t know if that’s just BS or or what but he did say that.
“The only amusing thing was the podcast recap that the ship model Adama trashes at the end was actually a museum piece costing 6 figures that the show was renting. Destroying it was not in the script — Olmos did it spur of the moment.”
Yeah, that’s great story. Moore said that the whole cast was really broken up about losing Starbuck and Olmos was in the moment and decided that Adama would destroy his ship. Apparently, he had no idea how valuable it was. The thing was insured, thank God, but I kinda doubt whoever rented them the thing is going to let them have anything like that again. Moore said the production guys went pale when he did it. If they’d known he was going to do that they’d have made a mock-up for him to destroy…
Rene (which I presume is pronounced “Reeeeeeen”) said this:
“At least to me, what makes her *not* a villain is that it’s only her alternate personality that kills, not Niki herself. Niki always tries to do the right thing.”
Why are you assuming that because they’re “alternate personalities” that one is guilty and the other isn’t? They are the same person in the same body, just with active/passive elements partitioned off. Like a separate partition on your hard drive. It’s still on the same physical drive; it’s only delusional Windows that thinks it’s two separate drives.
What’s more, neither is really worthy of emulation. Niki is loving, but she’s weak. She is unable to control and integrate her other side, and she can’t summon the will to stop Jessica from hurting her son and her husband. Jessica is a sociopath and an egotist; her “love” for her son is mostly posessiveness, the way she might love a favorite broach or a cat.
Her split head isn’t her fault, since schitzophrenia often comes from childhood abuse. But nobody made her a killer; only she did that. As I’ve said before, Jessica has to die for her sins, and Niki is the only one who can do it, by committing suicide.
Heroes:
It occurred to me that if Sylar killed Peter and stole his power, he’d no longer have to kill other Heroes to take their powers; he could become more “special” by simply meeting them and he he’d could then call up their powers whenever he wanted. Not that I think that Sylar would stop his murderous rampage even then. He’s a crazy serial killer. He’s got a real taste for it (no pun intended). He’d find a way to rationalize killing them and taking their brains anyway. Probably something along the lines of them having the same powers making him less special, somehow. The real reason would be he gets the same massive gratification that any serial killer gets from repeating his grusome ritual. He can’t stop. Nothing can compare with the high he gets from it.
Regarding Heroes, I find it absolutely amazing that they were able to fit so many principal and supporting characters into an episode and still make it so seamless.
I will be very interested to see how the Peter/Sylar battle goes down in April, but personally I think it would be a lot of fun to see Peter using his newfound invisibility and Sylar calling on his super-hearing. On the face of it, we all know that Peter is the stronger, because he will be able to absorb all of Sylar’s powers, plus Claire’s regenerative abilities, plus Claude’s invisibility, plus a few others I’m sure I’m missing. The question is, can he access all of those powers as quickly as Sylar? But since Peter came out of their last encounter a bit worse for wear, something tells me that Sylar is headed for one heavy-duty smackdown.
And the pork pie lines were my favorite. Delivered beautifully by an actor who makes it look easy.
“Moore also said that although the idea to kill Starbuck instead of her coming back from the Abyss one more time just came up in the writer’s room, her death helped support their mysteriou long-range plans for the show. I don’t know if that’s just BS or or what but he did say that.”
I guess my problem is I don’t have a ton of faith that killing Starbuck is going to be so integral to some master plan, because Ron Moore too often keeping saying that there barely is a master plan.
I personally don’t care if there’s a prearranged plan to the scale of Babylon 5, or if there is absolutely no plan. But the whole ‘demise of Starbuck’ still comes off as something for shock value rather than something planned out to fit into an overall story.
I haven’t watched the latest BSG yet. Normally I wouldn’t read a thread about a T.V. show I hadn’t yet seen. But I figured since it wasn’t the season finale, there wouldn’t be anything incredibly shocking in the episode. So, y’know, I thought, “Who cares about a few spoilers?”
…
KARA FREAKIN’ THRACE IS DEAD???????????????
Yikes.
From now on I will heed the prominent spoiler warnings.
I’m sorry that the episode got spoiled for you, Bill. But seriously, with a thread title like that, didn’t you figure there was something momentous happenning in the episode?
“Her split head isn’t her fault, since schitzophrenia often comes from childhood abuse. But nobody made her a killer; only she did that. As I’ve said before, Jessica has to die for her sins, and Niki is the only one who can do it, by committing suicide.”
What you say makes sense, Thomas. In the beginning, “Jessica” only killed people who deserved it, real scumbags, but now she has killed two FBI agents, and that psychiatrist too.
But what I can say? I like Niki and don’t want to see her go. She is no role model, but they can’t all be role models. If this were real life and she were being judged, then I’d agree she has to pay for her crimes. But seeing that this is fiction…
PS: I’m Brazilian, and we pronounce my name… hmmmm… Rehneh? I suppose, I’m not too good at figuring out the phonetics of it in English.
“Anyone else get the feeling that Heroes is kinda like the “Wild Cards” series minus the Jokers and minus the worldwide knowledge of their existance?”
I agree. I am a great fan of “Wild Cards”, by the way. “Heroes” and “Wild Cards” are in the same subgenre of “real people, in the real world, with powers”.