Am I the only one who thinks the firestorm over Don Imus referring to a group of young black female basketball players as “nappy headed ho’s” is just way over the top?
I mean, the guy’s not a church deacon, or a senator, or even a sports broadcaster. He’s a shock jock. It’s his job to push humor to the edge and beyond the edge. So he made a joke that was in poor taste. He admitted it. He apologized for it. He was suspended for it, for crying out loud. And there are STILL people who want to drive him off the air? While the Reverend Al Sharpton is railing against him, has he never bothered to crack the Bible he ostensibly preaches and stumbled over the passage about erring being human and forgiving divine?
It’s IMUS, for crying out loud. If Imus referred to a group of young Jewish basketball players as Matzoh-slinging Jewboys, I’d just shrug and say, “Whatever, man. It’s Imus.” The guy’s filling however many hours his show is every day, and it’s live. If he goes over the line and then admits he did and apologizes, I’m sorry, but that should be the end of it. Anyone who’s flogging it beyond that point has their own agenda and is just using this to further it. If Al Sharpton is that upset about Black women being spoken of in such a disrespectful manner, then why not spend his time going after the radio stations playing rap songs that call Black women “ho’s” (when they’re not talking about killing cops.) Or are slurs and racism only acceptable when they stem from Sharpton’s own constituency?
PAD
• 
PAD:
Since I don’t listen to Imus, I tend to discard else anything I hear him say automatically. But yes, he’s apologized. Let’s all move on.
It’s the likes of Jesse Jackson (a notorious media whørë) who make situations like this so much more dramatic than they need to be, especially when compared to far more relevant issues going on in the world (e.g. Iraq).
Thanks,
CHV
Amen.
I do agree though with something that was said on this morning’s show by one of Imus’s regulars and I can’t remember his name at the moment. He brought it to Imus’s attention that when there is white humor, that person being targeted is distinctive in his tone and behavior, while the humor for individual black or Hispanic people all sounds the same. In the case of black people, they all sound like “a 19th century mushmouth caricature” and for the Hispanics they sound like they sell burritos from the back of a truck. Something he needs to work on.
“In the case of black people, they all sound like “a 19th century mushmouth caricature” and for the Hispanics they sound like they sell burritos from the back of a truck. Something he needs to work on.”
Yeah, but why single out Imus? I’ve seen “Mind of Mencia” a few times. If Mencia has portrayed Hispanics as anything other than stereotypical bean-eaters, I sure haven’t noticed it.
PAD
Al Sharpton is doing what he always does, finding a way to make this story about himself.
I have yet to hear someone explain why this is being made a big deal of. Not that what he said is acceptable, but Imus (among others) have been doing this type of thing for years. I don’t really care for Imus and have never found him funny. But this whole situation is just being twisted out of shape in order to get peoples names back in the news.
On that note, does anyone understand why Imus in on MSNBC in the morning? That has just confused me since I first realized that that is what was being done.
You’re using that pesky earth logic again, PAD.
If Al Sharpton is that upset about Black women being spoken of in such a disrespectful manner, then why not spend his time going after the radio stations playing rap songs that call Black women “ho’s” (when they’re not talking about killing cops.) Or are slurs and racism only acceptable when they stem from Sharpton’s own constituency?
This is a key question that this country (white, black, whatever) needs to ask itself.
Eric
There’s an unwritten rule in comedy that you can make fun of your own ethnic heritage, but not someone else’s. It’s why Carlos Mencia and Paul Rodriguez get away with playing to hispanic stereotypes and why Chris Rock can get huge laughs at the Apollo using the N-word while Michael Richards had to abase himself for using the same word.
It’s stupid and inane, but that’s the way the world works. I never cared for Imus he has such a mushmouth manner of speaking that I still can’t believe he ever got on the radio to begin with.
But, yeah, he apologized. He’s taking his suspension. He even went on Al Sharpton’s radio show to talk about and has offerred to meet with the Rutgers ladies basketball team in order to apologize to them in person. Other than wearing a hairshirt, what else should he do?
I’m sure we can look forward to the good reverend targeting “Naughty by Nature,” performers of that anthem to respecting black females, “Let the Ho’s Go,” featuring the first line of:
“Bass me, face me, task the tip of a tastey
Bìŧçhëš are sweet as a pastry”
“Ho’s” in the title, “Bìŧçhëš” in the second line. Kinda goes downhill from there. And that’s from a thirty second google search. I’m sure there’s many more.
If Al Sharpton wants to do something about the kind of culture that spawns Imus’s remarks, he might want to start yelling at his own constituency instead of singling out one White guy.
PAD
it’s all about Sharpton and Jackson- men who contribute nothing to society ( or at the least do not plug noteworthy projects ), getting their screen time every few months or so.
two words for Sharpton- Tawana Brawley
one word for Jackson- Himeytown. Meredith Veira on NBC called him out on it and he defelcted. Typical.
Wherever there is a hint of non-pc discourse or slightly off-color commentary, there they are like gum on your shoe.
No such thing as bad publicity- and msnbc caved rather than back his free speech rights. I don’t like him personally, and think he’s a washed up old prune. Not fun, just not funny.
I don’t think, by and large, that white folks have the perspective to be able to judge whether or not the reactions of Al Sharpton and others in the black community to Imus’ remarks are over the top.
Several points here to make for me.
Imus made a very tasteless comment,however
I dont like the fact as I watched this morning flipping channels that Imus is almost playing the victim here.You have freedom of speech rights ,but you also have to be able to deal with the consequences of what you say which may mean folks calling for your head or in this case your job.Instead of apologizing think before you speak,dont talk about how embarassed you are after the fact,it didnt seem to bother you when you said it.
Al Sharpton:Ok my main prob here is when did he and Jesse become spokesman for all black people??I just dont get it cause I didnt get my ballot to vote here.I detest the fact that those two self serving assclowns are seen as the voice of black america.
Apologizing to those two means nothing,apologize to the young women you insulted,answer to your bosses and by the way what does it say about his bosses that they let this type of foolishness pass for entertainment?I dont know of anyone under 50 something who listens to Imus,my only knowledge of him comes from Howard Stern hating him so much.
As far as the rappers ,that is a long running thorn in my side as well as the liberal use of the N word in rap.Not to mention how VH1 can shamelessly promote “Flava of Love “and” I love New York “which are two of the most embarassing shows on TV
Justa black dude giving his two cents
Peace
Deano
I don’t listen to IMUS in the morning, but I do take offense at the statement toward African American women.
I think it is wrong that the FCC went after Howard Stern for his crude comments but nothing other than a 2 week suspension is given to IMUS.
Racism in any form is wrong, to dismiss it because its the individual job to shock the audience is unacceptable.
IMUS is moving in the right direction (apologizing to the victims and their families). In the future he should think before he engages his mouth.
Regards:
Warren S. Jones III
It’s a matter of personal opinion of course, but I have heard Imus and his crew say so many disgusting, pointless, mean-spirited, and unfunny things over the years, I won’t be sorry to see him go. I mean, it’s not like he’s some schmuck jabbering on a street corner… he’s being employed by TWO major media conglomerates, CBS and NBC. They’re paying to bring his garbage to the world.
I caught a bit of his apology, and there was one point where he said “I understand now it is not okay to make fun of some people…” which shows he totally misses the point. You can make fun of anyone you want… but you ought to ask yourself if you’re actually being funny, or simply destructive.
I think we have the perspective to know that words are words, and that cries for equitable treatment and respect are hollow if they don’t cut all ways.
PAD
Imus has shot himself in the foot to a degree by positioning himself as a serious source for news, commentary or interviews in the eyes of many that aren’t familiar more shock jock natured past. Being carried on MSNBC doesn’t help this matter. He’s put himself in a place where his shock jock comments will get a bigger flap started then they would have if a Howard Stern said them. It’s somewhat a problem of his own making.
Still, I agree on the matter of the hypocrisy and stupidity in the actions of the Sharptons and Jacksons out there. But, hey, if we really held people to the concept of getting their own houses in order before criticizing others for their problems, we would never hear a peep out of anybody. And THAT would be SUCH a terrible thing, wouldn’t it.
“Racism in any form is wrong, to dismiss it because its the individual job to shock the audience is unacceptable.”
I never said anything about “dismissing” it. I said that I personally wouldn’t be offended if he snarked at Jews (for instance) because it would be a matter of “consider the source.” And I said that he apologized, repeatedly, and indeed intends to apologize directly to the girls in question, so there comes a point where continuing to howl for his blood becomes out of proportion to the offense. And I further pointed out that if we go with the notion that–as you said–racism in any form is wrong, then Sharpton and Jackson et al might want to think about targeting the sort of songs and culture that fosters and popularizes the characterizing of black women as “bìŧçhëš” and “ho’s.” In other words, if Sharpton and Jackson are setting themselves up as spokesmen for Black America, then they might want to think about tending to their own back yard. Unwritten rule or not, it’s “unacceptable” to assert that demeaning Black women is okay if you’re Black. To say that someone can or cannot be insulting based on their race is itself racist.
PAD
When blacks, and other groups, have to obey the SAME set of “You can’t way that” rules that white’s are expected too, then they can complain about Imus.
O&A made a great point today about how blacks can go on the radio and TV and insult whites and jews and anyone else with impugnity, even some black radio jocks saying that all white people hate all black people and no one says boo, but god forbid “Whitey” says something.
When the vocal members (I say vocal members because I believe intelligent black people have no problem with Imus’ comments and never raise these stupid stinks over nothing) of the various “racial” and minority groups grow up, THEN and only then will they be anything more than useless leeches on society.
Jerry, the problem with “But, hey, if we really held people to the concept of getting their own houses in order before criticizing others for their problems, we would never hear a peep out of anybody. And THAT would be SUCH a terrible thing, wouldn’t it.” is that they don’t want it to work both ways. They want to do what ever they want but scream bloody murder over NOTHING.
The only people with any right to be offended by Imus’ comments is the Rutgers team he used the phrase “nappy-headed ho’s”, and that’s only because he called them ho’s.
“Political Correctness” is out of control and destroying this country bit by bit.
Wonder when the Sharptons and Jacksons of the country will get black villians banned from TV, movies, novels, and comics because “They paint all blacks as villians!”
PAD:
I think all of the above statements just prove there is a massive double-standard on race issues in America (e.g. Chris Rock [for example] can drop the n-word in performances, but no white person can).
I don’t endorse the use of such language at all, but hëll, it’s like America is still suffering from a chronic case of collective white guilt in the wake of slavery, Jim Crow, poll taxes, segregation, and the miriad of other racist institutions exploited throughout the country’s history.
Regards,
CHV
I can answer a few things that have come up: Imus is on this morning because the suspension doesn’t take effect until next week, so that his on air charity event can go ahead as scheduled this week; the suspension wasn’t imposed by the FCC but by the two networks that carry his show; there are plans or intentions for him to apologize specifically and directly to the girls on the basketball team, I don’t know when that is expected to happen.
The little bit I’ve heard played in context of his comments, I think mostly he made a stupid attempt at being funny using (or sounding hip) the vernacular he knows others are allowed to use. I hadn’t realized that “nappy headed” is only insulting and not descriptive. “Ho’s” certainly can be seen as insulting but it does seem that that depends on who is using the term.
I got to wondering something else about the level of fuss and attention being given this story. It has long been suggested that because the news organizations are large corporate businesses that they sometimes find in in their interest to help the government by not covering a story as aggressively as we used to expect from the media, could orders have come down to spend a lot of time on this? There is a limited amount of time to cover stories in any news related show and if it is filled with this circus, there is less available to focus on the things the boys in D.C. might find inconvenient at this time.
Amen, PAD. There isn’t a line or even a comma I’d disagree with.
There’s an unwritten rule in comedy that you can make fun of your own ethnic heritage, but not someone else’s.
Although some folks can do it. The trick is, they do it well. Chappelle was an equal opportunity offender and most of his stuff was dámņ funny. Lisa Lampenelli…not my cup of tea but the woman hits every group with equal venom, to the point where it’s a bit hard to single out one line for offense. So it can be done but you have to be funny. Imus’ comment was in no way shape or form actually funny. Maybe I’ve missed some cultural evolution but how does a team of black girls skilled in a sport and physically capable of kicking Imus’ wrinkled ášš translate into “nappy headed hos”???
As for making a pilgrimage to Al Sharpton to apologize and not be forgiven…Al Sharpton??? In a better world, Al would have been ridden out of town on a rail for any of the many manifestations of his loathsome personality. The traditional “kissing of the ring” by political candidates toward this fraud is one of those things that makes one want to turn one’s head from the TV. What the hëll has Imus been smoking?
I told my dad that he should have apologized on his show for being cruel to a bunch of kids who did NOTHING to deserve it and move on. The more supplication you show the more the media and associated parasites like Sharpton smell blood.
And don’t get me wrong; Imus bores me to tears. I used to listen to him years ago during a one hour commute, due to my inability to find a decent music station (A problem now solved by A-moving closer to work and B-mp3 players). He has said far far far worse. Must’ve been a slow news week.
I don’t think, by and large, that white folks have the perspective to be able to judge whether or not the reactions of Al Sharpton and others in the black community to Imus’ remarks are over the top.
I disagree. Anyone with a brain can make their own judgement as to whether or not Sharpton is in any position to judge others. Anyone with a sense of fairness can make their own judgement, regardless of melanin content, as to whether or not a member of a community is being consistant in their critisism. People can be inconsistant, sure, but it’s intellectually lazy to dismiss someone’s opinions based on nothing more than skin color.
Aren’t these two completely separate issues? Whether Imus should be fired, and whether Sharpton is a hypocrite?
I got to wondering something else about the level of fuss and attention being given this story. It has long been suggested that because the news organizations are large corporate businesses that they sometimes find in in their interest to help the government by not covering a story as aggressively as we used to expect from the media, could orders have come down to spend a lot of time on this? There is a limited amount of time to cover stories in any news related show and if it is filled with this circus, there is less available to focus on the things the boys in D.C. might find inconvenient at this time.
Oy. Well, if we are going to play the conspiracy game, how about this: we all know that Imus earned the undying hatred of Bill Clinton for his insults at the big Washington Correspondents dinner. Is it a mere coincidence that there are plans to take him off the airwaves right before Hillary Clinton runs for president?
(Answer: yes, it’s just a coincidence.)
I don’t understand this passive “oh it’s just Imus” garbage.
1. People try to excuse Imus from what he says because other people say bad things. This is the equivalent of Republicans that stammer “b-b-b-b-b-but Clinton” every time Bush is brought up.
2. Related to point 1 – ignore Sharpton. Yes, the man is a scumbag, but even a stopped clock can be right twice a day. If Sharpton came out and told you that murder was wrong, would you say that murder was good just because Sharpton doesn’t like it?
3. Most importantly – this is not Imus’ first incident of acting like a racist ášš. He says something racist, gets called on it, promises never to do it again, then is back to his old tricks in a few months. The man admitted that he hired a producer with the specific job of “writing n_gger jokes,” for Chrissakes!
An apology works for me. Once. After that, one has to ask whether the apology is sincere, or if the individual just has a steep learning curve.
Because an apology isn’t “I’m sorry people were offended by my statement”. Because that blames the people for being offended. If you are sorry, you try not to do it in the future.
And as PAD said…’consider the source.’ We expect Imus to be offensive. He isn’t really apologetic, because he probably has every intention of continuing to offend in the future. And he sees no difference between offending people with race/religion/ethnic jokes, and offending people who just disagree with your social/political/religious beliefs.
However, just because we’ve grown to expect this from ‘shock jocks’ doesn’t mean we should ignore them. Ignore them, and they will grow and multiply (as they have done over the years.) The only way to end it is to stand up and quote Edgar Allan Poe: ‘Nevermore.’
The issues aren’t completely separate…if Sharpton is someone who can be taken seriously, then that lends weight to the “Imus should be fired” side of the equation. If Sharpton is a racist hypocrite who’s fine with white-bashing or Asian-baiting but Lord help you if you mutter the slightest word against blacks, then his calls for Imus’s firing should be ignored and the matter judged independently of whatever Sharpton has to say.
In other words, the issues are only separate if the answer to “Is Sharpton a hypocrite?” is yes.
Just did a bit of reading and was surprised. The New York Post had an article on the whole ordeal (http://www.nypost.com/seven/04102007/news/nationalnews/imus_gets_the_old_heave_ho_nationalnews_john_mazor_and_david_k__li.htm)
and Imus was suspended for using the term “you people” while on Sharpton’s show. Seems the ‘nappy’ comment alone only required some apologizing.
Personally? I think the nappy comment was just poor taste, undeserving of media attention. If anyone had to defend those women, I would have preferred to see a Women’s Rights group or a Basketball league representative step up, not the same and tired Jackson & Sharpton combo.
Regardless of the underlying angle of his the nappy comment (be it racism, muscular women, anti-hairstylishness, whatever), I think Imus is being turned into another Michael Richards casualty.
If Sharpton & Jackson are fighting for equality for African Americans, there needs to be consensus and good relations from BOTH sides.
A playground half-full of victims is a schoolyard half-full of bullies, and we’re all gonna lose our recess privileges at the rate things are moving.
Are blacks picked on, mocked or ridiculed? It happens, certainly, but I don’t see it any less or more than any other nationality, ethnicity or class. When you’re too proud to be offended, you’ll be too strong to be a victimized class. When there’s fewer victims to defend, we can all start moving forward instead of repairing a recent batch of troubles.
What I find amusing is that whites, jews, etc seem pretty content to listen to ourselves get mocked by any race when the humor is there. We only complain when victims cry when double-standards come into play.
This post wasn’t leveled at anyone in particular. We all have rights and deserve the same opportunities, no matter your background.
Posted by: Peter David at April 10, 2007 11:05 AM
To say that someone can or cannot be insulting based on their race is itself racist.
PAD
That makes sense. But I just got to thinking, what if a white guy like myself were to call another white guy a “honky” or “cracker?” It’d be pretty hard for the other white guy to take it seriously, wouldn’t it, as opposed to a black guy calling you that to your face?
For me, the word “ho” (which is used all the time) isn’t offensive at all, but I can see how the description of them as “nappy-headed” might irk people other than Sharpton. “Ho” is just a pejorative, sometimes said jokingly. “Nappy-headed” refers to their racial appearance and it’s being used here in a derogatory manner. Some people might shrug it off and say “that’s Imus,” others might be annoyed, others might be angry.
I agree that the punishment doesn’t fit the crime here. I don’t think Imus should’ve been able to say that without any consequences at all, but this is getting to be too much. Just as Imus is Imus, however, Sharpton is Sharpton. He will sometimes blow things out of proportion (remember when he joined Michael Jackson in accusing Jackson’s label of being racist since they allegedly didn’t do enough to promote his album, at the nadir of Jackson’s career?). This is what he does. Maybe Don and Al deserve each other, given their respective track records.
I don’t think, by and large, that white folks have the perspective to be able to judge whether or not the reactions of Al Sharpton and others in the black community to Imus’ remarks are over the top.
Sigh.
No, of course not. White people are universally in a position of privilege and power, no matter where they’re from, what their background is, what their income level and education are.
It has absolutely nothing to do about anything other than the colour of your skin, and if you can glow a flashlight through your skin, then it’s time to just shut up, Caspar and accept the fact that you’re an oppressive racist.
“Nappy-headed” refers to their racial appearance and it’s being used here in a derogatory manner.
So was it derogatory when people were calling Gina Glockson (last week’s American Idol ouster) nappy-headed, because of her hairstyle? Gina is, after all, a pale white rocker chick. Not seeing a lot of outrage over that one. (With not a lot being exactly zero.)
Seems to me that there’s a problem with the illusion (allusion?) that commenting on appearance is an issue, because it must only be related to one racial type of appearance. Maybe it’s just my west coast roots showing, but I see an awful lot more whitefolks with so-called “ethnic” hair than I do those who “should” have it.
I’d be a lot more offended by ho – it’s focusing directly on the sexuality of these gals, and not in any flattering light.
I’m obviously in the minority (no pun intended) here, but my opinion is that I’m not convinced he’s actually sorry and didn’t just apologize because he realized “Oh, šhìŧ, I’d really miss that NBC/CBS paycheck!!”
Until he makes me believe he’s actually sorry, that he’s actually grown somewhat into a more mature and respectful person, I say give ‘im the axe.
If Al Sharpton is that upset about Black women being spoken of in such a disrespectful manner, then why not spend his time going after the radio stations playing rap songs that call Black women “ho’s” (when they’re not talking about killing cops.)
Speaking as a black male, I’ll be the first to say that I’m not Sharpton’s biggest fan – that said, Shaprton has gone after rap music for it’s violent and misogynistic contect (among the many examples are http://tinyurl.com/ywcaef and http://www.daveyd.com/FNVDec302002.html). Whatever your opinion of him, he’s not being hypocritical here.
My objection to Imus’s statement (especially after watching the Rutger’s press conference) is that he attacked a groups of talented bright women for no other reason than to try to score a cheap laugh – these aren’t public figures who hold themselves out for ridicule, they’re young women
To put this in perspective (please bear with PAD, this statement might be a bit personal, but it’s not meant as an attack or an insult, just as an example): I think it’s similar to the time when you pointed to your daughter’s Mooninite interview on TV, and one of the commenters attacked her – she did nothing to deserve that attack. I see similarities here.
Related to point 1 – ignore Sharpton. Yes, the man is a scumbag, but even a stopped clock can be right twice a day. If Sharpton came out and told you that murder was wrong, would you say that murder was good just because Sharpton doesn’t like it?
Of course not. There’s nor eason to believe that Sharpton does not know what murder is. As opposed to making offensive rascist comments, which he seems to either be enitrely clueless about or, worse, uses to his advantage.
Imus going on Sharpton to apologize for racism is like Scooter Libby going on G Gordon Liddy to apologize for perjury. (And having Liddy not accept the apology!).
Look, it’s a slippery slope either way. We allow any fool to say anything and we risk sliding into anarchy. We set controls on what they say and we risk sliding into dictatorship. I’ll take the anarchy (preferably with zombies) but I can understand where others may choose differenetly (or reject the concept of the slippery slope entirely).
The Imus matter came up in discussion at the office; and one person wondered if Imus was trying to sound “cool”, “hip”, “with it”, etc., and used a phrase he thought would make that impression, not realizing that some phrases are taken in one context when spoken by one race, and a whole other context when spoken by another race.
As a point of comparison, this person pointed out that a few years back there was a three-word expression in the Black community which I’m not even going to attempt to spell. At the time, some White suburbanites were parroting the phrase, trying to sound cool.This co worker said (both at that time and again today) that they wouldn’t have said it if they’d known what it meant.
Another co-worker said he’d heard a news anchor use that phrase when it was in vogue. Again, probably trying to sound cool. He seemed to agree that Imus may have been in the same boat with the phrase he used.
To me, that three-word phrase from a few years back sounds idiotic, no matter who says it.
But back to the Imus matter. In the office discussion, I raised the point PAD made that Sharpton should go after radio stations playing rap songs that are disrepectful to women if the matter upsets him. There seemed to be a general consensus that PAD has a valid point, though one co-worker said that Sharpton (and Jesse Jackson, for that matter) has spoken out against such depictions.
Perhaps. I don’t pay any more attention to Sharpton than I do to Imus. But has he spoken out at the same level he’s speaking out against Imus’ words? I don’t know. But if he isn’t then that further strengthen’s PAD’s point.
Anyway, what do you all think? Could Imus have said what he said thinking (somewhat naively) it would make him sound “cool” and/or give him “street cred?”
Rick
Rick
if Sharpton is someone who can be taken seriously, then that lends weight to the “Imus should be fired” side of the equation
Why should we think about Sharpton at all? Why can’t we just make up our minds based on what Imus said?
PAD said: Cries for equitable treatment and respect are hollow if they don’t cut all ways.
So true. I must say that I get tired of being told that I somehow cannot understand another person’s perspective because I am not that person. Is it somehow more offensive to disparage someone because of race than it is to disparage her because of her sex?
Can someone honestly explain the difference between Imus saying this and Eminem saying what he says? Imus and [insert African-American rapper here–I don’t know any because I don’t pay attention]?
Eric
For the record, on the issue of Sharpton and rap music, here’s something from an ESPN.com Page 2 column written by Jemele Hill – African American, female, and I’d never heard of her before today:
“I don’t stick up for Al Sharpton often because I consider him an agitator, but Sharpton’s views on “gangsta” rap have been consistent and clear.”
“Last week, Sharpton and hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons held a public protest against rapper Tony Yayo — who is associated with 50 Cent — for his alleged assault of the 14-year-old son of a rival record company executive. Sharpton even called for a 90-day, FCC-mandated ban on all gangsta music.”
“But that doesn’t air on CNN and Essence magazine’s Take Back the Music crusade — a nationwide campaign that promotes up-and-coming hip-hop artists with positive values — and it doesn’t make the front pages of newspapers.”
I’m just shocked that the I-Man has seen a Spike Lee film (School Daze).
(I haven’t seen the film myself, but I have heard that the “nappy headed ho’s” is a reference to this film.)
“…has he never bothered to crack the Bible he ostensibly preaches and stumbled over the passage about erring being human and forgiving divine?
I know this seems picayune, given the realer issues this story deals with, but for the sake of clarity in attribution, isn’t the quote, “To err is human, to forgive divine” from Alexander Pope and not from the Bible?
Which isn’t to say that there aren’t plenty of other Biblical quotes about other-cheek-turning, or loving your enemies, or revenge being the responsibility of God and not humans, or other things that clearly aren’t being followed by those continuing to stir up this pot.
As for this situation as a whole, my mind really isn’t up to trying to parse everything that I’d like to say on the subject, so I’ll just try and sum things up:
Imus is an idiot, and has been for a long time. But I’m not sure this deserves the kind of attention it’s been given, particularly from people like Sharpton and Jackson who are, imo, almost as big of idiots as Imus.
Sharpton and Jackson are also, imo, the African American equivalents of radical feminists that were talked about in another thread. I really do think that they’re more about putting “whitey” in his place more than anything else, and they abuse situations like this to the fullest.
Elayne Riggs –
I don’t think, by and large, that white folks have the perspective to be able to judge whether or not the reactions of Al Sharpton and others in the black community to Imus’ remarks are over the top.
Why? Has no white person has ever experienced racism?
I’ve experienced it, and I’m 100% white European descent.
Elayne, you have a point to the extent that one who is not black cannot understand the emotional impact of racial slurs directed at blacks. Just as one cannot understand what it feels like to be discriminated against for being Asian… unless one is Asian.
An African-American gentleman used to be a friend of mine, but unfortunately he had a habit of excoriating me for being a racist using the thinnest of thin excuses. Because we were friends, it hurt, and it’s why we are no longer friends.
I have to imagine that my pain was a bit easier to bear, however, because I could walk home safe in the knowledge that my skin color would likely not cause a cop to pull me over, would not cause store security at the mall to follow me around, and would not cause the white majority to pre-judge me. After all, I’m part of the white majority.
And before anyone else howls about the “double-standard,” think about it. Can you really be so naive as to believe the emotional impact is the same for a minority who suffers discrimination as it is for one who is white?
Let me put it another way: I suffered from severe, suicidal depression for years. Don’t presume to tell me you could know how that felt because you’ve been sad too. It’s not the same.
But raw, unchecked emotion is an unsound basis upon which to build and run a society. We are becoming a nation of people that wears our every feeling on our sleeves and demands that everyone else bow before the altar of our narcissism.
It’s been said that words carry destructive power, and are tools of oppression. But words and ideas should be countered with other words and ideas. Laws should be reserved for injustices that cause a tangible harm, such as the “separate but equal” crap that used to be legal. Firings should be reserved for people who suck ášš at their jobs.
(And yeah, I think Imus sucks ášš. But he’s bringing in good ratings, and from a media standpoint that means he’s doing his job.)
In my own blog I opined that Imus should be fired but I’ve had occasion to re-think. I am, after all, a hardcore free speech advocate. If people really want to punish Imus — stop paying attention to him.
By the way, since no one else has said it here, I will: who the hëll is Imus to be criticizing anyone else’s hair????????
“For me, the word “ho” (which is used all the time) isn’t offensive at all, but I can see how the description of them as “nappy-headed” might irk people other than Sharpton.”
Here’s a silly question: Has anyone seen the picture of the girls in question? Are they, in fact, nappy-headed? I’m just curious. (And why do I have the song, “Guess who’s coming to dinner, Natty Dreadlocks” running through my head?)
PAD
“I don’t think, by and large, that white folks have the perspective to be able to judge whether or not the reactions of Al Sharpton and others in the black community to Imus’ remarks are over the top.”
Elayne Riggs
Are you speaking as one, or against one-I wonder. As one myself, I give nmy perspective not from the color of my skin but from what stands to sense and reason.
Imus did not have the sense to self-filter, but that’s what he’s being paid for, it’s what gets ratings. He’s one of NY’s original shock jocks. He didn’t coin the phrase, but it is the double standard that is existant in society today that says “Im black so I can call myself a *igga- no one else can” or “I’m gay so it’s ok if I call myself a fág”.
ya now what- I’m caucasian so don’t call me White- I find that racially offensive and demonizing.
Al Sharpton is over the top to begin with, racial comments or not. He’s a bombastic poppinjay with a knack for popping up at the right time, saying a few words to stir the pot, and then slinking back to his own corner- why is he not standing in the streets of Darfur crying foul? If someone else stood up ( maybe Gwen Ifill) besides the bamboozle brothers, I might give a dámņ.
Bill Myers –
Can you really be so naive as to believe the emotional impact is the same for a minority who suffers discrimination as it is for one who is white?
Sorry, Bill, but I wholeheartedly disagree with this, because it gives the same impression as Elayne: that unless you’re black, you have no way of even beginning to know.
Which is too simplistic and unrealistic a view.
The fact remains that what I experienced had a great emotional impact upon me, and it doesn’t matter that I’m not descended from slaves or whatever other example you care to come up with.
What matters is how I’ve dealt with that impact, and the fact that I haven’t let it turn me into the kind of person that still roam: KKK-types that hate because it’s so easy when they’ve never felt for themselves what racism toward them is like.
Although some folks can do it. The trick is, they do it well. Chappelle was an equal opportunity offender and most of his stuff was dámņ funny. Lisa Lampenelli…not my cup of tea but the woman hits every group with equal venom, to the point where it’s a bit hard to single out one line for offense. So it can be done but you have to be funny. Imus’ comment was in no way shape or form actually funny. Maybe I’ve missed some cultural evolution but how does a team of black girls skilled in a sport and physically capable of kicking Imus’ wrinkled ášš translate into “nappy headed hos”???
*************
SER: I also think the key to “equal opportunity” offense is the intent of the commentator. The more successful comedians come across as basically poking fun at members of their family. I think that was what separated Richard Pryror from Eddie Murphy in my opinion: Pryor poked fun and was not mean-spirited at heart. He had a routine about how he was the only guy in his neighborhood who would have sex with a homosexual. He was puncturing the down-low hypocrisy whereas Murphy was just a bully making fun of gay people.
So, that’s my thing with Imus: His intent is just to belittle and be a jerk. There is no larger social satire. It’s just the sort of thing that you would tell your kids not to do.
Do I think he should lose his job because of this? Well, people in the real world would lose their jobs for saying anything that insulting in an office environment. Yes, there’s more latitude in the arts in that you can be a millionaire (which he would continue to be if he lost his job, so let’s not weep for him) and an ášš.
There are two slippery slopes we could go down here.
Since WWII, every reasonable person agrees that no society should be like Nazi Germany, wherein people were persecuted unjustly.
So Imus goes and says this (and I admit I’d never heard the phrase before, nor considered the possibility that he may have just been immitating something he’d heard elsewhere, as Rick Keating suggested). And the question is asked “what is a society like ours to do without starting to slide down that slope?”
One argument says that it was hateful, bigoted speech that led to the rise of Hitler and the Nazis, and that such speech should not be tolerated because another such society may spring from it.
Another argument says that going after people for saying the wrong thing will lead to people being persecuted for their opinions and, again, to a society just as hellish as Nazi Germany.
So…what do we do? I don’t know. It’s a dilemma, all right.
I don’t know if the girls in question were “nappy-headed” but it’s not a phrase I would personally use to describe anybody, since on the few occasions I’ve heard it used before it’s not been meant as complimentary.
Just to clarify the above post, I’ve never heard “nappy-headed hos” before the Imus thing, but had heard “nappy-headed” before. So that’s what I meant when I said I’d never heard the phrase before but that on the occasions I’d heard “nappy-headed” used in the past it hadn’t exactly been flattering.
Posted by: Craig J. Ries at April 10, 2007 01:42 PM
Sorry, Bill, but I wholeheartedly disagree with this, because it gives the same impression as Elayne: that unless you’re black, you have no way of even beginning to know.
Which is too simplistic and unrealistic a view.
Forgive me, Craig, but if you are dismissing my view as “simplistic” I believe it is because you entirely missed my point: that hurt feelings are no basis upon which to run a society. I made that pretty clear.
I think it is naive to believe that the emotional impact of discrimination is the same for the white majority as it is for minorities in this country. But emotional impact is no way to judge what is or is not out of bounds, because feelings are tricky creatures: they’re a necessary part of the human experience but they often get bent out of shape with little or no provocation. Feelings are individual and idiosyncratic. Determining societal parameters for behavior should be logical and consistent.
To sum up: white people cannot understand how black people feel when white people use racial slurs, but we shouldn’t turn society upside-down to protect people from hurt feelings.
What’s the old saying? Those in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones?
The black community cannot crecibly call for word censoring by whites while at the same time embracing those very same words, and worse, in their popular culture. So long as Chris Rock gets laughs for his use of certain words, so long as MTV shows videos (yes, they do still show videos, but you have to be up very early in the morning to see them) glamorizing the thug lifestyle, any claim from the black community leaders that any other use of those terms comes up empty.
With two children looking to me for instruction and guidance…ok, the month-old girl is really only looking to me because she’s attracted to sounds and motion…I’m ever more aware of the peril of “do as I say, not as I do.” It’s a great line, but, again, it comes up empty. You can say what should be, what you want to be, but in the end, it’s how you act that really determines how people judge you. We struggle to get our 18 month old son to be gentle with the cats…when we ourselves struggle sometimes to be gentle with one of them in particular who can be extremely annoying and naughty. We don’t want Xavier to take things out of other people’s hands…when there are times when we have to grab things that could be dangerous or broken out of his hands without asking.
And why isn’t it considered racist for it to be ok for a black entertainer to use certain words and phrases, but not ok for a white entertainer? Isn’t it a sign of equality when your free to be made fun of equally, like everyone else?
Bill Myers –
To sum up: white people cannot understand how black people feel when white people use racial slurs, but we shouldn’t turn society upside-down to protect people from hurt feelings.
Well, I agree with the latter, but we’ll have to agree to disagree on the former.
“For me, the word “ho” (which is used all the time) isn’t offensive at all, but I can see how the description of them as “nappy-headed” might irk people other than Sharpton.”
Here’s a silly question: Has anyone seen the picture of the girls in question? Are they, in fact, nappy-headed? I’m just curious. (And why do I have the song, “Guess who’s coming to dinner, Natty Dreadlocks” running through my head?)
**************
SER: I think the issue is that Imus’s statements weren’t made in a vacuum. There’s a lot of racial baggage in this country. Referring to a black person as “nappy-headed” — even if arguably correct — is just not ideal. It’s like calling a Jewish person “hook nose” — maybe that person *does* have a nose that resembles a hook but there’s a historical weight there that would not make the comment go over well.