I had to pass on the Marvel screening Wednesday night because it conflicted with two bowling leagues of mine. So there I was doing a signing at Midtown Comics yesterday, along with fellow Spider-writer Roberto, and a fellow named Shane from Columbia pictures asked if I was interested in seeing a screening at 7 PM that evening.
Hëll yeah.
Did I like the film? Yup.
I didn’t quite like it as unabashedly as others, but when you’ve written the novelization of a screenplay, you can’t really enjoy the film the way other people do. For most viewers, the burning question is, “What’s going to happen?” Well, I knew pretty much what was going to happen, so I had instead my own sets of questions.
How were the ambitious action scenes going to play? Answer: Very well. The intercutting between live action and CGI has become nearly seamless; technically it’s light years ahead from the first film (which I have to admit remains my favorite.)
How were the scenes in the script that didn’t do jack to advance the plot going to impact on the film’s flow? Answer: Not at all, because they cut them all. (I was seated next to Heidi MacDonald and a friend of hers, Ken, and at one point Ken was muttering to me that the film was dragging. I muttered back, “Trust me: It could have been a lot worse.”)
How were the actors going to handle some of the dialogue that I felt was wince-worthy? Answer: Hit and miss. Some places provoked unwanted laughter from the audience. Other places worked very well, so kudos to them.
Since the script was a little fuzzy on it, how many times was Spidey going to lose his mask? Answer: I lost count. When it comes out on DVD you may want to turn it into a drinking game. If you really want to get hammered, you can toss down a shot whenever Venom loses his mask as well.
How in the world were they going to make the climax work, considering that some aspects were so filled with schmaltz that all it needed was Patrick Swayze to intone, “Nobody puts Spidey in a corner.” Answer: They changed it. Thank God, they changed it. I was really concerned that certain elements would have the audience cringing or howling. As it turned out, Sam Raimi or maybe a test audience or someone obviously shared my concerns because the filmed ending works much better.
Of couse, for those interested in seeing the original ending (with which I did the best I could; I think it actually works better in print than it would have on the screen) plus all the deleted scenes, it’s in the novelization. But see the movie first.
Have to say, for me, the acting standout in the film was Thomas Hayden Church’s Sandman. I wasn’t sure how it was going to play on screen, but as opposed to the somewhat over-the-top histrionics of the other “villains,” Church puts forward a perpetual sense of quiet desperation and even–believe it or not–dignity. Brilliant job, I thought.
PAD
• 
I was going to mention the hair thing. With his hair brushed forward Tobey looks like he’s auditioning for a film based on the wacky misadventures of Young Adolph Hitler. And they really could’ve done more to make it seem like the suit was actually turning him evil instead of just an annoying jáçkášš. Come to think of it, Superman 3 did a poor job of that as well, with Supes performing such acts of perfidy as straightening out the Leaning Tower of Piza and bowing out the Olympic Torch.
But despite all the gripes I liked it. I still think it was a really good third draft of what could have been a really great movie if they had just taken one or two more whacks at the script and, not to suck up to the host but I challenge anyone to disagree, let PAD do a final tweak on the dialogue.
Just got back from S3, and while it was okay, I was a bit perturbed by the rather contrived metaphor: Spidey = America (catch the flag bit going into the “war zone”?), Venom/Suit = Oil (the great corruptor), and Sandman is…well…a person of [the] sand(!). With perseverance (and the help of some guided missiles), American can defeat the oil-monster and reform the sand-people. Seems a bit…off to me.
Anyway, even if it is a bit ham-handed, it’s still a pretty good flick. I actually liked Gwen, which was a surprise. I thought Ms. Howard and her makeup and costume people did a great job of reproducing that character look from the original books (much better than Ms. Dunst’s (venerable) M.J.).
Otherwise, there’s still a bit o’the black goo around (in Dr. Connor’s office), so there can always be a Venom II or Carnage in the future. Worry not: symbiotes (like bad metaphors) are forever.
AD
“I laughed when Peter brushed his hair forward (that’s what makes him EVIL! Rather like the two “D”s in “Fredd,” except it’s not SUPPOSED to be funny)”
Actually, what I was flashing on was the Broadway musical “Jekyll/Hyde.” There was this whole song where Jekyll was musically going into and out of his Hyde persona, and the way he indicated which personality he was was by snapping his head to one side or the other, and this big hank of hair would either flip into his face or flip back out of it. In the latter case, he’d be Jekyll; in the former, Hyde.
PAD
Your review made me want to watch the movie. A bit odd, maybe, since it’s so sarcastic/deprecating, but I find that with action movies lowering my expectations really helps me enjoy them.
The only time that didn’t work was with “Arthur“. *Sigh*
All in all, I enjoyed the film. I didn’t enjoy it as much as the second one though.
The basic story was solid, though the plot dragged a bit at times, particularly in the begining. I thought the actors did a wonderful job, although Topher sounded a bit funny with that appliance in his mouth.
My bigest complaint was the dues ex machina near end (I could hear Adam Sandler going “Something that could have been brought to my attention yesterday!”) Also, I felt Venom was just tacked on at the end and should have been saved for Spider-Man 4 (although I realize that they weren’t sure there was going to be a Spider-Man 4 at the time). We really didn’t get to see enough of Venom to really understand the character (We saw Brock, but not Venom). Also, I think it needed another scene with Sandman near the end(like this daughter having to be hospitalized or something) to set up his character for the climax better.
Well I saw the Midnight show Friday morning, got 3 hours sleep then went to work. Since I’m deaf and Carmike Cinemas won’t captions the movies I read the novelizations first when I can.
So like Peter I knew what would happen and was looking forward to the “How”. Good popcorn movie, liked the Book better.
Now after paying the guy for 3 movies how about Dr.Connors FINALLY turning into the Lizard?
I caught SM3 this morning at 9:55, and I was… underwhelmed. (Spoiler-free comments follow.) This could have been at least three movies — one with the Sandman, one with the New Goblin Hobgoblin?), one with Venom — and instead it’s crammed into one movie that is also padded with excess melodrama. Yes, Thomas Hayden Church was the best actor, but Evil Peter Parker was weak (and the new hairstyle reminded me of Jared Leto in 30 Seconds To Mars) and the best action was the first battle. I guess Tobey Maguire has them writing maskless scenes for him more with each movie, and this was often weak: It makes sense he’d lose his mask during the final battles, but standing unmasked overlooking a crowd gathered waiting for him, to swing in from above, when almost everyone has a camera? (It reminded me a little of the train scene in the 2nd movie, where he’s unmasked and all I could think was “Doesn’t one of these people have a digital camera?) And Mary Jane was a big star last movie, had a bad role this movie, and she’s suddenly down to waitressing?
If I were rating this from A to F, I’d give SPIDER-MAN 3 a C+.
Consider the events as we’ve been shown Mary Jane has seen them:
Ending the third movie as they did seems a disservice to anyone with abusive relationship experiences that leave them constantly second-guessing themselves. The Mary Jane presented in this movie seems especially vulnerable to manipulation.
I agree with the comment about the Sandman’s role in Peter’s origin story. Spider-Man has one of the best origin stories in comics, in that it’s got a proper character arc and a very effective plot twist.
This movie changes the origin story drastically, and it’s the one thing I genuinely disliked about the film.
Just heard Matt Drudge bemoan that Spider-man was such a hit and doesn’t think it will even be remembered in two weeks, man needs to get out of the house. He also thinks there will be 3 more sequels. is this true? or old news?
Thoughts:
On Church: So letter-perfect as Sandman it was actually distracting; every time he got a close-up, I found myself wondering if he’d had plastic surgery to look more like Flint Marko.
On Cameos: Bruce Campbell is always welcome (“Mister Pekker?” “Parker.” “Oui, that is what I said, Pekker.”) Stan Lee…I could not restrain myself from muttering, “Hey, they’ve parachuted Stan Lee in to deliver inspirational sayings!”
On Venom: I thought he got as much time as he needed–his motivations were clearly established, his goals clearly defined, and he went right to “kill Spider-Man” quite sensibly. (What was needed was more time to explain why Sandman was working with him. “You want to kill Spider-Man, I want to kill Spider-Man.” “Um…I just want money. Tell me where you’re fighting Spider-Man, I’ll be across town robbing a bank.”) And he got the best line in the movie. “Lord, I only ask of you one thing: Kill Peter Parker.” (It’s in the trailers, so I don’t feel guilty repeating it here.)
On Ditko: No, he wasn’t the butler. The landlord is named Ditkovich as an homage, but I don’t think he’s interested in doing cameos. He’s not quite Salinger, but he’s not much of a public figure either.
Did I like it? Yes. I could think of tweaks here and there to improve it, but it was still quite good for all its flaws.
He also thinks there will be 3 more sequels. is this true? or old news?
Old news.
How many villains can know Spidey’s identity and kidnap MJ in one movie? LOL
I thought one major plot point that was flawed was Harry hearing his butler say that his father was killed by the Glider….why would that clear SpideY? Couldn’t Spidey have still killed Norman with the Glider? It just didn’t make for a revelation that would cause Harry to change his position.
I loved the Venom and Topher in his role. He really stole the scene every time he was in it. It made me wonder what the movies would have been like if he had gotten the title role for the three movies.
I think the film suffered from trying to do too much in one movie. I think it would have done better to focus on the Venom, and Spidey fighting his dark side.
I found the Peter/MJ relationship in this movie as lacking. I found myself wanting Peter to be with Gwen. And I found MJ lip synching making me cringe twice for the movie.
I loved Thomas Hayden Church’s Sandman, I just think in a movie with soo much, it ended up not hitting as a high a note as it could have otherwise. I guess as we learned with the Batman movies, and now with Spidey 3, it doesn’t pay to have too many villains…
Overall, I did like the movie, but it would be my third best of the series. The action scenes were great, and I will buy it on DVD. It just didn’t make me want to watch it over and over like the first two movies did….
Rob
I have to agree with the poster above that having Sandman kill Uncle Ben was an incredibly bad decision. You shouldn’t change pivotal elements of a character’s origin, especially this element which is so important to Spider-Man’s motivation.
The guy he let get away later kills his uncle. It has to be that way.
One other thing that bugged me was the students hassling Peter in a college Physics course. I don’t see why they had to include such antics in this film.
Box Office Mojo has the big numbers over at http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2308&p=.htm
“Landing on the same early May slot as the original, Spider-Man 3 spun an estimated $148 million on over 10,000 screens at 4,252 locations, the biggest opening weekend and widest release ever.” Plus “At the foreign box office, Spider-Man 3 captured another record: biggest overall weekend, with an estimated $227 million from 107 countries since Tuesday”
Neil
I agree with a lot of what’s been said, but I really have to stress the “too packed” aspect. There was simply way too much going on. It’s a shame, because I thought they were both really awesome, but either (or both) Sandman or Venom really needed to be cut out so that time could be used to properly develop whoever was left in. Focus the storytelling, people! There’s ample evidence to show that superhero films need to limit their vision to only one or two villians.
I liked Gwen and I think she would have been a great counterpoint to MJ–if MJ had been done properly to begin with. Instead, the movie ended up accentuating all the ways they’d gotten her wrong in the first two films. If Dunst does anything well, it’s being a flirt, but she hardly ever got to really do that. Comic MJ wouldn’t have been moping about, she’d have been fighting for her man!
The Butler ex machina (great phrase!) bugged me a lot, too.
Really, though, most of the films problems could have been solved by just tightening the script by removing a villian or two. I still think 2 is the best by a pretty wide margin.
Several thoughts, having now seen it twice:
* Was there a deleted scene between Venom taking over Eddie and Venom meeting Sandman? Story structure seems to warrant a battle between just Spider-Man and Venom where Peter doesn’t win (and almost loses).
* When Sandman’s sandstorm sweeps through the crowd, there’s a brief shot of 4 people engulfed in the sand. Deleted scene as to their fate?
* What the heck was Gwen doing in that next-to-last scene? Just accompanying her father? Made no sense.
* How does Peter’s mask fly off when he gets hit in the head with a pipe? I know the mask “needs” to come off, but please.
* The butler: hmm, old geezer with access to Norman and Harry’s equipment? Vulture to be?
What I’d like to see for the next two films: SM4 as Scorpion and Lizard vs. Spider-Man and Black Cat (Ursula), and SM5 as just Spider-Man vs. Kraven (maybe with a number of small villain and hero cameos).
Unless they could wrangle a Spider-Man/Human Torch team-up film.
And then SM6 gets an obvious teaser trailer: Kraven. Scorpion. Lizard. Venom. Sandman. Dr. Octopus. Spider-Man (pause) SIX.
I thought one major plot point that was flawed was Harry hearing his butler say that his father was killed by the Glider….why would that clear SpideY? Couldn’t Spidey have still killed Norman with the Glider? It just didn’t make for a revelation that would cause Harry to change his position.
There are also about 100 better ways they could have done it…like having the glider be able to record events and then Harry finds the recorded footage. Anything would have been better.
Posted by Greg at May 5, 2007 01:25 AM
I can’t believe I’m only one that is upset about Uncle Ben getting shot by the Sandman. That part of the story just ruined the movie for me! Now when I watch the first Spider-Man it won’t have the same impact!
*********************************
Posted by Ben Johnston at May 6, 2007 10:13 PM
I agree with the comment about the Sandman’s role in Peter’s origin story. Spider-Man has one of the best origin stories in comics, in that it’s got a proper character arc and a very effective plot twist.
This movie changes the origin story drastically, and it’s the one thing I genuinely disliked about the film.
****************************
Posted by George Haberberger at May 7, 2007 11:13 AM
I have to agree with the poster above that having Sandman kill Uncle Ben was an incredibly bad decision. You shouldn’t change pivotal elements of a character’s origin, especially this element which is so important to Spider-Man’s motivation.
The guy he let get away later kills his uncle. It has to be that way.
******************************
I agree with all of the above sentiments. I’ve been reading this sporadically, but I’m frankly surprised it’s not a more widespread criticism.
I don’t agree that it invalidates the origin b/c it appears as though the thief Peter let get away either knocks into Sandman or startles him and he then accidentally shoots Uncle Ben.
The bottom line is that the Sandman wasn’t going to shoot uncle Ben and it’s the thief that sparks the occurence.
. . . but I’ve heard from so many casual fans that they didn’t even get this ending. They either think the thief runs by and shoots OR that simple Sandman shot uncle Ben. It muddles the clear origin story.
Peter can probably say that if he had stopped the thief, his uncle would be alive – but, it’s just a bit strained to say, “i let a thief go, that thief went on to startles another man who then shot my uncle . . .”
Yuck! I’m so surprised with the thought Raimi has put into these characters that he would tinker with a sacred part of the characters origin and motivation.
Raimi changed the webshooters b/c Raimi didn’t identify with a genius that could create such a thing – yet he did this? With all of the competent writers how was this allowed to make the final cut?
Sure, you could heap more tragedy on Peter by saying he still is responsible for the events leading to his uncle’s death, the thief’s death, the sandman being wanted for murder, the sandman having to escape and being turned into the sandman . . . but in the end it seems lazy and convenient and tarnishes the clear origin that was never broke to begin with.
When I first saw Spidey 1 and we see Peter smugly allow the thief to run free, I felt that lump in my throat knowing he’d go on to kill Peter’s uncle. Now it loses it’s power a bit.
I still enjoyed part 3, but this part jsut bugs me.
I’m curious to hear PAD’S take on this.
“Was there a deleted scene between Venom taking over Eddie and Venom meeting Sandman? Story structure seems to warrant a battle between just Spider-Man and Venom where Peter doesn’t win (and almost loses).”
There was a deleted scene, yes. Several, as a matter of fact. They’re in the book.
“When Sandman’s sandstorm sweeps through the crowd, there’s a brief shot of 4 people engulfed in the sand. Deleted scene as to their fate?”
No.
“What the heck was Gwen doing in that next-to-last scene? Just accompanying her father? Made no sense.”
Beats me. She never met Harry, so there was no reason for her or her father to be there. I glossed over it in the book because even I couldn’t come up with anything.
PAD
Bill Mulligan:
“There are also about 100 better ways they could have done it…like having the glider be able to record events and then Harry finds the recorded footage. Anything would have been better.”
Or how about, Harry realizes his love for MJ is more important than his need for vengeance? Coulda been a, y’know, character moment rather than a piece of plot machinery.
I saw it last night. What worked, worked, and what didn’t, didn’t.
I’ve read the novelization, and I am very glad that the ending was changed. I completely agree that it worked better on paper than it could have on screen.
The movie did drag, and there was too much reliance on the “not telling X what happened” thing. The “Butler ex machina” didn’t work. Either Bill Mulligan or Stew Fyfe’s suggestions would have worked so much better.
While I liked seeing Gwen (especially the not dying) part, and thought that Bryce Dallas Howard did well, I would have preferred seeing Debra Whitman in her place, considering what they had for her. I was ticked about Captain Stacy being basically an expository character, and the utter waste of James Cromwell in that role.
Tobey Maguire and James Franco continue to play off of each other beautifully. I liked that Krsten Dunst got to play MJ as a character in her own right, though I maintain that she would have done better if the movie MJ was more like the comic version.
Rosemary Harris and JK Simmons milked every scene to its full potential, but in both cases their first scene was their best. J.J.J. and the little girl… when I read that in the novelization, I thought “That has to be PAD’s doing, and will not be in the movie.” I am happy to be wrong!
There’s nothing I can say about the retcon that hasn’t been said. Somebody —— up royally. Of course, Thomas Hayden Church was fantastic. I was very pleasantly surprised with Topher Grace, and also at how closely the character arc stayed to the comics. He was far more of an ášš here, but Doc Ock got the opposite treatment in the second movie, so I suppose that it all balances out.
Count me in for a treatment of the Sinister Six. The suggestion of Bruce Campbell as Mysterio? It’s official: nobody else can be cast. The fit is that good. Ben Kingsley as the Vulture? Ditto. Plus, with Octopus not appearing, he can take the lead as head of the Six. Sticking as closely to the original line up as possible, we have to have Electro and Kraven. Doctor Octopus is dead (he shouldn’t be, but he is) and if we see Sandman again it had better be as the heroic version. The Scorpion, the Rhino, and Hydro-Man (if they stick with the comic in terms of origin) are viable alternatives. I just want the Six to be well done, if that route is gone down.
Thought this was the best of the three. Has just the right mix of humor, poignancy and the three villains. Can’t see why the critics have been so harsh. Howard Stern was right about this one! (But, then again, he usually is…)
First of all, I hated the first movie. With a passion. I hated the majority of the casting, the editing, the story flow and the ending. I never watched the second one the whole way though, opting to read Peter’s novel instead. I did see the majority of the second in bits and pieces, though.
I went to see the third Sunday and despite all of the same flaws of the second movie, despite short scenes that should have been longer, long scenes that shouldn’t have been there, extrememly illogical conversations between characters and the same odd editing and flow as the first two, this movie managed to be entertaining the whole way through.
Chalk it up to the special effects, chalk it up to a villian that was actually decently fleshed out, chalk it up to well, the special effects. This movie was every bit as cheesy, miscast, and flawed logically as the others—but for some reason it worked.
Kudos to everyone who worked on the Sandman, I hope they make a good chunk of the record breaking box office, they deserve it.
I’m crossing my fingers Tobey and Dunst won’t return for a fourth. And I’m equally crossing my fingers that Bryce Dallas Howard returns in a bigger role. And for Peter Parker’s sake can we get the Lizard finally? And also, would a spin off movie: J Jonah Jameson: Life at the Daily Bugle be so much to ask?
Since we’ve moved on to spoilers…
I also thought that the butler’s revelation (incidentally, did he go to the same butlering school as Batman’s Alfred? They get access to illegal and confidential information, then do nothing about it) that the glider “proved” that the Green Goblin killed himself. As far as he knew, Spider-Man could have stabbed him with it. (Ironically, this is *exactly* how Venom (sorta the second Spider-Man) killed the New Goblin (the 2nd Green Goblin.))
What happened to Spider-Man’s spider-sense? I can sorta buy them going with Venom’s immunity to it (and forgetting to mention this in the movie), but what about when the New Goblin grabs Peter at the start of the movie?
Based on the end, it looks like Spider-Man will allow any villain with a sick kid to leave, regardless of how much property damage that villain did, with no assurance the villain won’t keep stealing, or even if the villain helped kidnap Mary Jane and put her in a very dangerous trap.
They could include in the sequel (or as a sequel) Sandman participating in a customized work-release program by acting as the sole firefighter for the entire region, and generally acting as a Gulliver to the Lilliput of New York City. He could also raise money for his daughter by taking donations through a reformed-supervillain weblog/webcam, or maybe a reality TV show/telethon situation if it plays better as a movie. Church could totally play up the comedy in a “Rise of the Sandman” storyline.
Oh, dude, they could make it a supervillain version of “Napoleon Dynomite,” where they just do funny Sandman-stuff until Flint saves Peter’s disasterous mayoral campaign (“Vote for Parker”) with his disco dance. Teresa Russell could come back with a single pig-tail.
***ALERT*****ALERT****
Must see for Thomas Hayden Church fan’s and fan’s of superhero parodies…he starred in a little direct to DVD movie called ****The Specials*** (also starring Rob Lowe), a hilarious parody in the tradition of the Tick and Seinfeld. I think it came out about 2001 (maybe earlier). I watched it once and never forgot it (own the DVD)
“Really, it’s part of a well received, hugely successful franchise so I wasn’t surprised critics were gunning for the third movie.”
I doubt they were gunning for it. They wouldn’t have been so positive about the first film — and even more so for the second — unless they didn’t like it. All in all, it was an OK film.
Favorite commentary on SM3, courtesy of Todd Alcott (MINOR SPOILERS):
I get that some alien goo from outer space, apropos of nothing, lands mere feet away from the protagonist. I get it.
I get that an escaped convict, the man who killed the protagonist’s uncle, stumbles into an open-air particle-accelerator thing, and that he thus gets the ability to commune with and manipulate sand. I totally buy it. I get that a bump on the head is guaranteed to give another antagonist amnesia just when the protagonist most needs it to happen. I get that in a city of eight million people, the protagonist and another antagonist just happen to be in the same church bell-tower at the same time, so that alien goo can drip from one to the other. I get all that.
What I don’t get is the career of Mary Jane Watson.
In Spider-Man 2, Mary Jane was, like, a super-model or something and the celebrated star of The Importance of Being Earnest Off-Broadway. Cool. And at the beginning of Spider-Man 3, she’s the third lead in a new musical on Broadway. Also cool.
Okay. So, opening night doesn’t go well, MJ gets panned, and the next day is fired from the show without notice. Just walks into the theater to find she’s been replaced. Someone mutters something about how she should have called her agent and she dashes out of the theater. Next thing we know, she’s a singing waitress in a — gasp — jazz bar.
1. How did the producers of the Broadway show get all the way through rehearsals and up to opening night without realizing that their third lead couldn’t sing? Two possible answers: MJ is so famous as a model/actress that they didn’t care that she couldn’t sing, or else she has extremely powerful representation. If she’s so freaking famous that she gets cast in a Broadway show with no singing talent, she’s famous enough to sell out her run without good reviews. Broadway producers don’t care if the show stinks, they care about if there are butts in the seats. End of story. You think Madonna got cast in Speed-the-Plow because of her acting talent?
2. How did MJ get through opening night and the next day without calling her agent? What kind of Broadway star is she? I’ve done shows with actors who call their agents onstage, during rehearsals.
3. What kind of agent is her agent? How could an agent have the power to cast a non-singer in a major role on Broadway but not have the brains to call his client when she gets unceremoniously canned from the show?
4. Why is she so upset about being fired? She must have had a pay-or-play contract, you don’t get to be third lead on Broadway without a decent contract — she should just take a few weeks, on the show’s dime, to absorb the impact of her bad reviews and figure out what she wants to do next. But no, first thing, she dumps her boyfriend, takes up with his arch-enemy and starts working as a singing waitress in a jazz bar. If memory serves, supermodel + Off-Broadway trimuph + Broadway singing failure does not = singing waitress. Where is the indie feature co-starring James urbaniak? Where are the modeling gigs to fall back on? What did she do with all the money from the perfume ads? She sure didn’t spend it on furniture — her crummy studio apartment looks like it was furnished by Goodwill. Does MJ have a drug problem?
5. And while we’re at it, who makes the money from all the Spider-Man merchandise on display throughout the movie? We see that Peter Parker doesn’t have any money. And yet, one of the major plot-points is that NYC is flooded with Spider-Man merchandise. Costumes, t-shirts, dolls, posters, everything. Who’s making all that merchandise, and who is profiting from its sale? Why doesn’t Spider-Man do anything to control the dissemination of his image? Pirate merchandisers are making a killing off him while he lives in a studio apartment with a broken door. And, Spider-Man is on the cover of every newspaper and magazine — how did he pose for all those covers? Are those all photos by Peter Parker? If so, why does he not get any money for them? What is wrong with these people?
I don’t know if it was only because I sat in the forth row of the movie theater, but the fight seen were to jumpy. In a way this was the problem with the whole movie, too jumpy, too jarring, too much over the top. The movie jumped between plotlines, scenes, underdeveloped characters, rough character development.
It’s a shame, because the lead actors have proved themselves capable of subtlety.
Micha: but the fight seen were to jumpy.
I agree. I enjoyed the fight scenes, but found them really too fast and difficult to follow to really get the thrill I’d like to have had.
The first one, when Harry scoops Peter of his moped and they head down the narrow alley, for example. I want to see Spidey moving as only he can. Fast, sure. But not so fast that I can’t eally tell what he’s doing, or that it just seems to be swinging.
Twisting around a section of falling wall and diving thru the crane, all .5 seconds of it, was cool. Alas, too little of that.
Actually, what I really did like was the Harry/Peter team at the end, where they were working perfectly together. One holding out a hand just as the other needs something to grab, and then vice versa. It was the seemless flow involving multiple people that a was really missing from the big Jedi fight in Attack of the Clones.
My thoughts on Spider-Man 3:
This movie fills me with frustration. I went to see it on Sunday. I had high expectations. I loved the first Spidey flick, *really* loved the second, and despite a certain amount of trepidation (Why mess with the original mythos?), I went into the third with a positive attitude.
I felt like I was on a first date with a girl who’d been really built up by my friends. We’d talked on the phone, and hit it off. (This isn’t a real incident in my life, but just go with me here…) We go to a restaurant. Conversation’s great. As she’s talking, though, I notice she’s making lots of gross smacking and chewing noises while she eats. No no no, I tell myself, it’s okay. This is still the same girl you spoke with so well on the phone.
Soon after, we’re sitting next to each other, and I notice a certain cloying odor, and it’s not coming from me. It’s okay, though, I tell myself, because she’s still the same person I got on so well with, and look what a great time we are having! And then at the end of the date, we go for the good-night kiss … and as she leans forward, I’m blasted with the smell of a vulture’s partially-mastocated carrion. Eyes watering, I tell myself, “It’s okay, we had a great time..” But I find it’s harder and harder to convince myself of the truth. She has lots of promise, and with a little cleanup she’d be great … but as is … yikes!
Okay, shallow example, I know. The thing is, that’s how I felt about Spider-Man 3. Unfortunately for Spidey, my date and I have a second chance, many chances, to improve things. Either I can adapt to poor hygiene, or we can discuss and make things work. Not so with the movie. It is what it is. It ain’t changin’ for nobody, unless a director’s cut DVD were to be made, and I don’t think even that would help; the problems are intrinsic to the story.
I won’t go into spoilers unless and until it’s sanctioned by the group as a whole, but suffice it to say that as fun as this movie is, there are some plot points that just didn’t work for me, no matter how much I tried to rationalize them afterward. And trust me, I so wanted to love this movie. I spent the last few days revisiting it in my head, examining my issues with the plot from alternate angles, trying to make the story work for me. But every time I thought I’d convinced myself that it was totally awesome, the lingering scent of partially-mastocated
carrion wafted from my mind’s nose, and I just couldn’t accept it.
As it stands, the movie is good. It’s fun. Its action sequences are thrilling.
The thing is, it should’ve been great. It ought to have caused my heart to race. The action sequences should’ve made my jaw drop, not because of the greatness of the effects (We have that in abundance here!), but because of the character investments that were made throughout the story leading up to those sequences. Am I being hard on the movie? You bet. Given the previous two installments, we know what these filmmakers are capable of giving to us. It’s as if Jimmy Neutron decided, rather than putting all the work necessary into building a super-turbo-charged deluxe time machine, he simply went for building an incredibly fancy, super-turbocharged deluxe clock instead.
Here’s hoping for better things to come from the rest of the summer.
“It is what it is. It ain’t changin’ for nobody.”
I often rewrite movies in my mind. It can’t completely solve the disappointed with a movie that should have been better, but it is very satisfying to remeber movies not only the way they were, but the way they could have been.
By the time I watched Revenge of the Sith I already had such a clear idea not only of how the first two movies could have been done, but pretty detailed ideas for the 3rd movie, that I was actually rewriting it while watching it. It lessened the disappointment.
I wanted to love this movie, I really did, but the more I mull it over, the more I think it was merely “okay.” I’ll save most of my comments for the upcoming spoiler-filled thread, but it was sad to see it fall prey to the bane of superhero sequels, “Too many villains.”
-Rex Hondo-
What do you get when you have two directors working on a movie at the same time? SM3.
So, OK, it really was just one, but it honestly felt like Raimi at the top of his form for the segments involving the supers, including the ‘birth’ of the Sandman, and some mediocre hack dealing with all the rest. The timing, editing, characterizations were often so bad that it made me wish I was wearing a watch so that I could look at it.
THC as Sandman was nigh-on perfect. At the opposite end, Dunst was her worst yet as MJ. She completely lacks the inner ‘fire’ and dazzling persona of the comics one. And isn’t someone going to start wondering about this individual always getting involved in some deadly predicament involving one of Spidey’s foes? If Dunst does quit the Spider-man franchise, I won’t miss her, unless they somehow come up with someone even worse. Which is hard to imagine.
Tobey McGuire is still fine as Peter, but they HAVE GOT to start making him more grown up. That shy, tongue-tied bit was cute when he was a high school junior. But it’s getting old. Time for Peter to develop more of a spine.
And that WAS one of the fine bits of the film where we see what Spidey would be like if he didn’t hold back for fear of hurting someone. As expected, he’d be truly scary.
Just saw it (I feel like the last guy on Earth who has – is anyone still reading this thread?) My impressions (which are clearly shared by some previous posters):
Too long! Too many baddies! 20 minutes should have been trimmed. In fact, I boldly suggest they should have given Sandman his own film, either before or after this one. Flint Marko, Eddie Brock, Harry Osborn, Peter/MJ/Gwen all have compelling storylines – but none of them were done justice.
James Cromwell was utterly wasted.
What kind of particle physics experiment is performed in the dead of night with only a chain link fence for security? Couldn’t Marko have gotten his money by suing Generic Science Company?
The writers forgot about the Spider Sense, didn’t they?
Although I felt it ran long, I also think a couple of additional scenes were needed, including the initial Venom/Sandman meeting that PAD alluded to…
Bryce Dallas Howard is dead sexy. Frankly, I would have told Mary Jane to f*** off and go sling hash.
I didn’t mind the Marko/Uncle Ben revision.
Bruce Campbell as Mysterio must happen. IT MUST, I tell you! Hëll, they could even retcon his multiple appearances in the series as some sort of illusion-making thingie.
A lot of the fight scenes were so fast, with so much going on, that I couldn’t really enjoy them – I really appreciated when they went to slow motion for portions of the action sequences.
That is all.
the character I missed the the most in this movie was Spiderman. The villain fighting, web slinging (in speeds visible to the human eye), wall crawling, bantering super hero who wears a mask. He had many of his scenes stolen by the maskless Toby Mcguire.
Didn’t like Kirsten Dunst as Mary Jane either. She adds little to the character. Isn’t it ironic that they had a blond play a readhead and a readhead play a blond?
Now I’m interested in seeing what ending was originally planned. 🙂 But I still don’t like the current ending too much. A bit too quick and click. And in my opinion, they didn’t have to do that to Harry. That was cheese for the screen more than plot to me. Could have been more clever and given more options for him. 🙂
Sandman battling Spidey at the end just seemed out there considering what he did later. We know he’s a sympathetic villain but somehow it seemed a bit too sudden and rushed to tie up things right after a battle that focused more on eradicating Venom than really fighting Sandman. Ah, well.
Venom did not get enough screen time.
And I agree with Michael that Cromwell was wasted. Even his holographic stint in I, Robot was better than this. 🙂 At least the hologram had a sense of humor. ^^
Michael, Mysterio sounds like a great idea! Love to see Campbell pull off that. I can just imagine a mist-enshrouded helmet that would clear mystically at times to show Campbells face talking. Maybe even have a disembodied head effect. ;p