Congrats to the FBI. With nary an illegal wiretap or any of the other intrusions on civil liberties that the administration seems to believe is the only way to fight terrorism, the FBI arrested a home-grown terrorist cell composed of amateurs and incompetents. I don’t phrase it that way to diminish the accomplishment, because even morons with rocket launchers can still inflict serious damage, and it’s not like the Virginia Tech guy was an experienced merc. It’s just a factual description of a group of would-be terrorists so stupid that their cell was infiltrated practically from the begining because they wanted to transfer a training video from VHS to DVD, couldn’t figure out how to do it, and wound up with an alert video store clerk tipping the FBI.
The Feds then effortlessly infiltrated them and, sixteen months later, busted them when they tried to buy weapons for an intended strike on a military base. Dix: It’s not just a name for an army post. They’re now dubbed the Fort Dix Six. I’m hoping that someone does indeed try to make a movie about them called “The Cell That Couldn’t Shoot Straight,” which they would then turn down, so that Variety could run a headline that says, “Dix Six Nix Pix.”
PAD
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“The Lone Gunmen” on FOX did the whole “Government Officials try to crash a plane into the WTC” first, so it’s doubtful Bush’s masters would’ve gone that route 🙂
Posted by: Bill Mulligan at May 11, 2007 03:30 PM
Bill, I wouldn’t use Wikipedia to prepare for any serious surgical procedures but it’s adequate for casual use.
Bill, I can’t think of ANY circumstances in which I’d feel comfortable with you performing surgery.
But since Condi said that no one could have imagined hijackers crashing planes into the WTC, she must have missed that episode.
Well, on the show (I think it was the short-lived series’ premeire), the goverment agency did it to boost funding for their anti-terrorism team or something along those lines, and the had some sort of remote control set up, rather than physical hi-jackers…
So Condi was semi-honest
Den: But since Condi said that no one could have imagined hijackers crashing planes into the WTC
In Vixen 03 one of the earlier (and better) Dirk Pitt adventure books by Clive Cussler there is a group in Washington tasked with makign up a whole bunch of plans for doing things nobody would think of doing. Plans for a US invasion of Canada. Plans for sneaking up the Potomac and lobbing bombs on Washington. Etc.
I realize it’s a fiction book, but this made a lot of sense to me and I would actually be a bit suprised if there isn’t something at least vaguely similar in reality. If you’re going to protect against enemy action, you should spend some time planning what you would do if you were them. You may not choose to implement any defenses against a plan you consider too unlikely, but at least think it thru.
Certainly TPTB in DC send enough time anticipating what tactics the folks across the aisle are likely to come up with.
I saw an interview with the guy that played Langley about their series premiere and his reaction to the WTC attacks on that day and the similarities therein. I have said it before, I’ll say it again I’m sure. Most people that think they can imagine the very worst that people can do aren’t bad people, so they can’t imagine the depths to which people will go. Most of the people in power are better at administrating(relatively speaking) than at trying to hurt people.
“Bill, I can’t think of ANY circumstances in which I’d feel comfortable with you performing surgery.”
You couldn’t have told him that before he took out my appendix, Bill? Once again, my timing’s lousy. And Dr. Mulligan, the green stuff IS supposed to be coming out of the incision, right?
Wait…you wanted your appendix out?
Oops…
>The idea that people stay at home for fear of suicide bombers is not recommended. It is very depressing.
The idea that as many people as do think that the government’s measures are perfectly reasonable is pretty dámņ depressing to me. As is turning buildings into fortresses, and being unable to go into various places without being practically strip-searched. Silly me. Here I grew up in a North America where this was unthinkable. Now? “Business as usual” for many. I’m glad I don’t have any kids. I’d be unhappy thinking of them growing up in such an unhealthy environment.
>This would radically change our economy, putting many people employed in traditional “brick & mortar” establishments out-of-work.
As opposed to how many people now buy books from Amazon instead of real shops? We’re pretty much headed that way as it is …
>In the Soviet Union, the media had no ability to criticize the government the way ours does.
Tell that to the U.S. show host who was canned for his comments shortly after the attacks. Or the Editor-in-Chief of Ottawa’s daily newspaper who was canned for an anti-government editorial.
>And people within the U.S. have said “it’s not OK.”
But a lot think we haven’t gone far enough.
>Because in life, as in poker, you learn to play the probabilities, not the possibilities.
Given the attack on the Trade Center nine years previous, what was the probability they’d try again? I’d rate it as more than just ‘possible’. Especially after the Cole thing.
> Condi said that no one could have imagined hijackers crashing planes into the WTC
I guess Tom CLancy is “no one” as his DEBT OF HONOR ends with a demented passenger airliner pilot doing a kamikaze on the White House. After the fact he spoke with people high up in the administration and they admitted that most either hadn’t read the book or, the few that had just didn’t take the idea seriously.
> In Vixen 03 one of the earlier (and better) Dirk Pitt adventure books by Clive Cussler there is a group in Washington tasked with making up a whole bunch of plans for doing things nobody would think of doing.
As written above, someone had thought of a very similar situation. But no one took it seriously. This was very much like that eye-opening moment in THE LONGEST DAY where a German general, heading for war games, tells his aide that he expects to win as usual because, although playing Eisenhower, he’ll have the allies attack in Normandy where no one would expect it. His aide considers this and starts to reply “But, what if …” and the general pooh-poohs him by pointing out that Eisenhower is too conservative and would never take such a risk. Another case of underestimating the enemy’s ability to come up with the same idea our side has.
Posted by: The StarWolf at May 12, 2007 12:55 AM
The idea that as many people as do think that the government’s measures are perfectly reasonable is pretty dámņ depressing to me. As is turning buildings into fortresses, and being unable to go into various places without being practically strip-searched. Silly me. Here I grew up in a North America where this was unthinkable. Now? “Business as usual” for many. I’m glad I don’t have any kids. I’d be unhappy thinking of them growing up in such an unhealthy environment.
I’m not sure what “various places” you cannot go into without being “practically strip-searched,” but the only place where I’ve been subjected to security measures like you describe is at the airport. I have to take off my shoes and my belt, empty my pockets, and let them search my bags. Not a big deal. Hëll, last month they were moving things so efficiently at LaGuardia that I got through security in under 15 minutes.
The measures they take at the airport are reasonable given the threat. And no one is forcing you to “endure” those measures: if you don’t like airport security, you can always choose another mode of transportation.
Posted by: The StarWolf at May 12, 2007 12:55 AM
As opposed to how many people now buy books from Amazon instead of real shops? We’re pretty much headed that way as it is …
Have you been to the mall lately? The grocery store? A “brick & morter” Barnes & Noble? They’re all still doing brisk business where I live.
Even if we are “headed that way,” it’s best to let the economy evolve on its own, with minimal government interference. I’m not one of those radical “deregulate everything” conservatives. But the kind of radical government intervention you propose would be severely damaging to the economy, would cost a bloody arm and a leg in the long run, and actually represents the kind of restrictions to our freedom you claim to abhor. Think about it: the government encouraging us to stay in our homes and do nothing but order stuff by computer? Very Big Brother.
Besides, terrorists can adapt. If we no longer congregate in public places, they can attack neighborhoods with poison gas or biological weapons.
If we crawl into a hole, the terrorists win.
Posted by: The StarWolf at May 12, 2007 12:55 AM
Tell that to the U.S. show host who was canned for his comments shortly after the attacks.
I’m not familiar with the details. What was the name of the host? What were his comments? And who canned him? Was he canned because of pressure from the government?
Posted by: The StarWolf at May 12, 2007 12:55 AM
Or the Editor-in-Chief of Ottawa’s daily newspaper who was canned for an anti-government editorial.
My remarks were focused on the U.S. Canada is an entirely different nation. Still — I think it’s irrational to compare the “Great White North” to the Soviet Union. Canada has definitely gone overboard with socialism, but people can still vote in legitimate elections, something that was never possible in the Soviet Union.
Starwolf, it’s obvious you live in North America, either in the U.S. or Canada. I think you’re among those who have lived with the blessings of freedom for so long that you don’t know what you have relative to people in other nations. In a world where some governments will imprison, torture, and kill people for speaking out, and where the state-controlled media would never report such an abuse, people in North America have it pretty dámņ good. It’s a bit… crass… to complain about the U.S. and Canada as a “police state” while we enjoy freedoms that others would give their eyeteeth for.
Are the U.S. and Canada perfect? No. But the solution isn’t to throw up our hands and say, “Everything is šhìŧ, let’s give up!” The solution is to recognize that we have blessings of freedom that others don’t — and to use those freedoms to correct the problems we face.
Posted by: The StarWolf at May 12, 2007 12:55 AM
But a lot think we haven’t gone far enough.
I disagree. George W. Bush’s approval rating is in the toilet because of the war in Iraq. A lot of U.S. citizens have had more than enough.
Posted by: The StarWolf at May 12, 2007 12:55 AM
Given the attack on the Trade Center nine years previous, what was the probability they’d try again? I’d rate it as more than just ‘possible’. Especially after the Cole thing.
I wasn’t referring to the probability that the terrorists would try again. I was referring to the probability that Bush either allowed 9/11 to happen or was the cause of it. Given that there is no credible evidence that Bush did such a thing, and that on its very face it is illogical, I’d have to say it’s about as likely as you being part pig and part cybernetic monkey space alien. In other words: the chances are virtually nil.
“I’m not familiar with the details. What was the name of the host? What were his comments? And who canned him? Was he canned because of pressure from the government?”
I think he was talking about Bill Mahr. The way he lost his original show was wrong, but he’s not really suffering for his beliefs.
“The idea that as many people as do think that the government’s measures are perfectly reasonable is pretty dámņ depressing to me. As is turning buildings into fortresses, and being unable to go into various places without being practically strip-searched.”
Metal detectors make strip search unnecessary. and considering your alternative is turning your home into a fortress, I’ll take the security guards on the mall anyday. Having a vibrant daily life is worth the few seconds it takes to unzip a backpack and pass threw a metal detector.
The only airports where I was asked to take off my shoes and jacket was in the US.
“you wonder if terrorists get their ideas by watching Police Academy movies.”
If they were really planning to sneak onto the base disguised as pizza delivery men, I think the answer to that is a resounding “Yes.”