Obama critics were reportedly “overjoyed” to learn that a brand new subject to disbelieve President Obama over has presented itself with the “alleged death” of Osama bin Laden.
“How convenient,” said leading conspiracist Ida Noh, “that bin Laden’s alleged body was allegedly buried at sea. Where’s the body for inspection and identification? Where is the long form death certificate? In this country, if you want to be considered truly dead, you need the long form death certificate.”
With Obama having presented his long form birth certificate to supposedly put an end to the “silliness,” sources indicate that Birthers are relieved that they can now present a united front of disbelief over a different Obama-related matter. “We were,” said one source, “very nervous there for a while. We were starting to look like paranoid nutjobs. But this is a whole new thing that we can obsess about. Buried at sea? What sea? The sea near Hawaii, perhaps? Or some other foreign country? How convenient.”
It’s been reported that Birthers have officially changed their names to Deathers and will “continue the good fight until we see some further fake proof about bin Laden’s fake death.”
Superman, who is rumored to have personally shot bin Laden in the head in order to undo some of the recent PR damage he sustained over renouncing his citizenship, was unavailable for comment.
PAD
• 
Apparently, the key intelligence that led us to Bin Laden was the identity of his most trusted courier, given up by a detainee in Guantanamo, back in 2006 or 2007. With the name, we spotted him and followed him back to Bin Laden’s Pakistan compound.
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J.
So let me understand this: Bush had this information for two years and still couldn’t get the job done? That’s what you’re saying?
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I am really enjoying watching conservatives squirming under this. Yank out whatever talking points you want. Obama just disposed of the guy that Bush stated he didn’t think much about.
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PAD
I think his point was more pro-Gitmo than pro-Bush.
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Regardless, I’d rather put politics aside for the day and congratulate the president, the CIA, the navy Seals, the Pakistani government (just kidding) and everyone else who had a hand in this. There will be plenty of time for political grandstanding later, right now I think everyone, liberal, conservative, radical Muslim (kidding again), can be thankful that one sorry excuse for a human being no longer walks the Earth. May his ignominious end discourage all of those weak willed followers into going back to whatever lives they had before. It has to beat a bullet to the head and sleeping with the fishes.
No, what I’m saying is that four years ago, under Bush, one of the 775 detainees at Guantanamo who have been denied lawyers, trials, and other “rights” gave us the identity of one of Bin Laden’s most trusted couriers. Over the following four years, we found that person, started following him, identified his base of operations, identified that compound as Bin Laden’s, and then proved that Bin Laden was present.
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Like in so many ways, Bush started the ball rolling. Obama spent years denouncing those methods, then came into office and quietly continued them — and, in this case, got Bin Laden.
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J.
Like in so many ways, Bush started the ball rolling.
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Sorry. You don’t get to frame the discussion. Not this time.
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Bush knew, did nothing with the information, and Obama got the job done.
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PAD
All the reports out so far say that the key intelligence — the nickname (not the name, as I said earlier) of the courier came out of Guantanamo four years ago. And that it took four years of work to go from that nickname to “here’s Bin Laden.”
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Unless you have a source that says the nickname was utterly ignored before January 20, 2009, that contradicts all the other reports out so far, I’d have to say that once again Obama built on work and programs done under Bush to get the victory. “Standing on the shoulders of giants” and all that.
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Obama done good here, like with the Somali pirates. He acted presidential, and it’s a good day — hëll, it’s a good week — for America.
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But he didn’t do this all on his own, and he sure as hëll didn’t do it DESPITE Bush’s efforts.
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J.
Since this thread began with partisanship in the headline, I don’t feel obligated to observe standard decorum… but I’m going to anyway because it’s the right thing to do. The War On Terror’s most iconic objective has been achieved. Thanks to the sacrifices made by our servicemen, taxpayers, and leaders as well as those from our allies, after nearly 10 years the Hitler of our generation has been taken out. We can all feel a sense of completion from this. Al-Qaida isn’t gone, but this is certainly a significant blow to their morale and to that of Hamas and all of the other such organizations. Presidents Obama and Bush deserve credit for this as the commanders-in-chief during the 10 year effort.
But he didn’t do this all on his own, and he sure as hëll didn’t do it DESPITE Bush’s efforts.
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Considering Bush was the one that said Obama was no longer that important. Considering Bush was the one that dragged us into Iraq and draw the focus entirely away from Afghanistan and bin Laden. Considering many other things that contradict your comment above.
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Yeah, you can live your little dream world where Bush gets all the credit.
Craig, it’s a straw man argument to accuse someone who says that “Obama done good here, like with the Somali pirates. He acted presidential,” of living in a “little dream world where Bush gets all the credit.”
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Chances are the people who are willing to give props to all the people who had a hand in this are more likely on the side of reality than those who wish to dole it out onlyto those they like.
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That said, the president did a great job here. Even those who don’t like him should give him his full props–if you don’t credit someone when they do good you only encourage them not to try. Would some of the same people demanding he be given full credit be doing the same if this had happened under Bush? Maybe not but wah wah wah, who cares? Big picture, people, focus.
Oh, I give Obama credit — he fully deserves his share of it. I’ll even give him the lion’s share.
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But you’re the one in the fantasy world if you want to give Obama all the credit, and deny that he built on two years of work done under Bush. Hëll, Obama himself said as much, and gave Bush a call to let him know ahead of time.
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I can’t believe I’m saying this, but you could learn a lesson in classiness from Obama here.
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J.
I give Obama credit too. When he got the call saying that Bin Laden had been found and that our men were ready to go in and get him, Obama fulfilled his office’s duty by giving the go-ahead for our men to proceed. That’s no little thing.
Well, Jerry covered it much better than I ever could below, but still…
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and deny that he built on two years of work done under Bush.
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And here’s the rub: 2 years of work under Bush does not being to excuse away the previous 6. It does not begin to make up for the fact that Bush even made the comment that bin Laden was no longer important. It does not begin to make up for the fact that we very likely could’ve gotten bin Laden years ago if we weren’t so distracted by another, entirely pointless war.
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I can’t believe I’m saying this, but you could learn a lesson in classiness from Obama here.
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You mean like you are in pointing out how things are nothing more than ‘liberal talking points’?
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I suppose you can now go off on Jerry for being just as classless.
“I am really enjoying watching conservatives squirming under this.”
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Really? Because I’ve been cheering along with people from across the ideological spectrum. There hasn’t been any squirmy by anyone, just cheers along with a few tears by people who would trade this day for another with their lost ones. I guess you’re surrounded by intolerant people. Or, perhaps, you simply focus too much on idiots.
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Part of encouraging intelligent discourse is paying attention to the reasoned people, not focusing on the simple minded – even if arguing against them is easy.
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Look, today we are not left or right. We are simply victorious. And so that I don’t sound as though I am being malicious: I do not take pleasure in the death of a man. Instead I celebrate the triumph of justice and order, and the expulsion of evil from this world.
Really? Because I’ve been cheering along with people from across the ideological spectrum.
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I’ll be doing that tonight at my bowling league. Plenty of guys there who don’t like Obama, but they lost family and/or friends in 9/11 and will be thrilled to know that bin Laden is gone.
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PAD
“Like in so many ways, Bush started the ball rolling.”
Except the economy, right? You didn’t finish your frame.
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So, Jay, just so we’re all clear here…
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1 – Bush craters the economy and starts an economic depression that’s one of the biggest in our history. It’s the kind of thing that every honest expert said would take years to turn around and see any real recovery from. Yet the day we see Obama sworn in the entire thing is all his fault and even mentioning the fact that Bush actually cratered the economy is crying, whining and excuse making to somehow shift the blame away from where you feel it belongs (on Obama.)
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2 – Bush shifted the focus away from the real war on terror, pulled manpower, resources and money to go chase Saddam in Iraq, tied us up for years in Iraq, neglected Afghanistan and other high value targets and area in the region, declares on TV during a press conference six months after 911 that he doesn’t think about bin Laden very much and isn’t really that concerned with catching him anymore, disbanded the CIA’s bin Laden Unit, etc., etc., etc… But he still gets “credit” for laying the groundwork and making it possible to do this.
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Yeah… Right.
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We’ve spent the last two years fixing that “groundwork” and rebuilding the mess W. made by deciding to chase his administration’s personal pipedream in Iraq and taking much needed manpower and focus away from the real war on terror.
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I’ll give Bush and his crew all the credit they deserve. They were a fine obstacle to getting the real job done for six years.
Someone should remind Jay Tea that Bush closed the CIA’s Bin Laden unit in 2005… right around when his compound in Pakistan was being built.
Oh, and Donald Rumsfeld (who’s hardly an Obama cheerleader) has publicly stated that the courier intelligence that led to Bin Laden was not obtained through “harsh interrogation”.
And how long till republicans start going after Obama for not giving Osama a “fair trial”…
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Bladestar, be realistic. They’ll just claim that Obama didn’t actually know it was going down until after the fact and would have never approved of such a thing had it been run past him. Hey, after all, various pundits and posters elsewhere (and a few here) have declared that if Obama were to catch Osama he would just apologize for accidently catching him, make sure he was given all of his due civil rights and maybe assist him in getting the best ACLU lawyers he could.
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I fully expect that bit of mouth breathing asshattery to be the blueprint for many of their responses to this.
I don’t know if they’ll do that, but I’ve already seen some attempt to give full credit to Bush and none to Obama, or give it to our military alone and none to Obama.
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And, as Jay Tea is doing, some will use this as a ‘the ends justify the means’ when we ignored basic human rights for who knows how many at Gitmo.
And yet when Iran, Al Qaeda, etc. tortures people and ignores their rights, they get their panties in a bunch….
Bladestar, that is more of a liberal talking point — see Guantanamo, above.
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J.
Remember “I Like Ike”? Well now we’ll be hearing
“Obama killed Osama” when the next elections come around.
That reads exactly like an Onion article. Any chance you’ll submit it to them, Peter?
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Raphy
“Superman, who is rumored to have personally shot bin Laden in the head in order to undo some of the recent PR damage he sustained over renouncing his citizenship, was unavailable for comment.”
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That is why they did not show the body. Osama wasn’t shot on the head with a bullet, it was with a concentrated blast of heat vision.
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Super pinky push.
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Woke up with this on my mind. 71 Virginians. One can only hope.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhmwcmOPemk
Nice to see at least a few sites not going all triumphalist and jingoistic on me.
Actually, that’s one of the things I liked most about Obama’s speech last night. Yeah, it had some of the jingoistic nonsense, which unfortunately is unavoidable.
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But there was no “Mission Accomplished” banner. There was no crowd of reporters to cheer to the words “We got him” as they did with Saddam Hussein. And Obama wasn’t smiling ear to ear and giving fist-bumps for a job well done.
Craig, what exactly, in your opinion, is “jingoistic nonsense”? Are we ever allowed to feel good about the country?
Jesus.
Craig, what exactly, in your opinion, is “jingoistic nonsense”?
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Reciting lines from the Pledge of Allegiance. Some of the other ‘Rah Rah America’ stuff.
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I felt plenty good about last night, but I also know that ‘rah rah’ doesn’t do us any good. If that irks you, well, too bad; I guess you’ll just accuse me of being anti-American or some other nonsense (as if we also didn’t get enough of that the last 10 years).
Please tell me one instance where rah-rah rhetoric inspired a terrorist, Craig. And what you call nonsense, many draw strength from. And if I don’t like it, “too bad”? How incredibly intellectual and mature of you.
I remember when Obama was elected, there were “Obama vs. Osama” t-shirts being sold at various retail clothing outlets. I wonder whether they’re still in stock and if they’ll go up in value after this? Collectors take note!
Might want to send one to Norah O’Donnell at MSNBC who twittered “Obama shot and killed,” last night.
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This mission took guts. Check out http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/05/president-obama-had-authorized-bombing-of-compound-in-march-but-wanting-evidence-of-obls-death-cance.html
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If we had waited and he had gotten away can you imagine the recriminations? And the mission was by no means a slam dunk–it has to be worrisome that the locals were unknowingly twittering away telltale signs that, thankfully, nobody picked up: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/raid-against-osama-bin-laden-captured-twitter-101832783.html
Remember this blast from the past, courtesy of our friend Erik Larsen:
http://www.avclub.com/articles/erik-larsen-continues-comics-industrys-baracksploi,24365/
“I’ve got a great idea! Let’s make fun of Obama and Marvel Comics at the same time!” History is a fickled mistress, isn’t it?
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Screw Jay and his spin. No level of spinning or desperate attempts to make this a bûllšhìŧ “Score one for W.” moment will ever change one very simple fact. This should have been the objective from day one. This should have been one of the primary focuses of the job after 911.
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But it took W. Bush a little under six months to change from his wanted dead or alive photo op moments to…
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“I don’t know where he is. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.”
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“‘ll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.”
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He then went on to morph Obama as public enemy #1 into Saddam as public enemy #1 and wasted years, time and manpower (manpower pulled from Afghanistan and the war started to deal with those, including bin Laden, who caused 911) to pursue a foolish endeavor in Iraq and followed that up by doing things like dismantling the CIA’s Osama bin Laden unit.
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Bush and crew spent six years proving that bin Laden mattered to them only about enough to get the personal war in Iraq that most of them were on record declaring that they wanted as far back as 1997 and caring that he was the “excuse” needed to enter Iraq. Obama said that Afghanistan was still the war we should have been prioritizing and that bin Laden was still a priority target and two years and four months after taking office he’s shown that he was more serious about both than Bush did in the last six years of his presidency.
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Osama bin Laden is dead at last and the rest of us, while enjoying that little fact, can also get some good laughs at the expense of the Jay Tea’s, Darins and others that do every mental contortion they can to minimize this and minimize the fact (after two years of talking about how Obama would apologize for catching him, treat him like an ambassador, treat him like a leader of an oppressed people) that not only was it not a Republican President sitting in office that gave the kill order, but that it was Obama who gave the kill order.
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Six years of W. showing with words and actions that Osama didn’t matter to him anymore. Hey, he had his nice trophy from Saddam hanging in his office to satisfy him.
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And now, two and a quarter years after he left office and on the 8th anniversary of W. Bush’s bogus “Mission Accomplished” photo op, we’ve accomplished one of the missions that he so miserably dropped the ball on.
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No, Bush doesn’t get any points for this one no matter how madly the clowns dance, spin and contort to pretend that he does. But, oh what humor they provide as they try.
“He then went on to morph Obama as public enemy #1 into Saddam as public enemy #1”
I’m presuming this is a typo and should be “Osama as public enemy #1”. There seem to be a lot of “b” and “s” switching today. Just part of the President’s perception problem.
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Not enough coffee yet. I was up into the way early hours enjoying the news coverage of the events of the day.
There seem to be a lot of “b” and “s” switching today.
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Jerry just got fired from two Fox affiliates and a Spanish-language website. 😀
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“I’m presuming this is a typo and should be “Osama as public enemy #1″. There seem to be a lot of “b” and “s” switching today. Just part of the President’s perception problem.”
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It has less to do with perception problems and more to do with typing two names over and over again that only have a one letter difference in the spellings.
If more people would spell it Usama, this problem would be far less common.
Really, the main purpose of my posting (since I figured there were plenty of places shouting “USA! USA!”) was to offer humorous commentary on how the right would doubtless try to minimize this achievement of the Obama administration. (Keep in mind that when I posted it, I hadn’t read anything yet other than the text of Obama’s speech.)
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I guess I gave them too much credit. I thought they would triple down on denial (having doubled down once the birth certificate was produced), but instead the very same people who would blame the Clinton administration for anything that went wrong during the Bush years are now trying to credit Bush with bin Laden’s death. And worst of all, they’re doing it through the oldest excuse of all: the ends justify the means.
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PAD
“the main purpose of my posting (since I figured there were plenty of places shouting “USA! USA!”) was to offer humorous commentary on how the right would doubtless try to minimize this achievement of the Obama administration.”
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Except the humor, like any old joke that gets repeated over and over, ceases to become funny after a while.
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While I never expected you to all of a sudden become ralph peters, I thought you would have a short and sweet post along the lines of “I’d likie to thank our men and women for their sacrifice and courage to make this happen” or “I’m glad the bášŧárd’s dead. Any questions”.
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But no, you havre to include bûllšhìŧ about the birth certificate AND Superman renouncing his cotizenship. Really?
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Anybody with two brain cells will be happy Obama got him. I fully expect his approval numbers to rise significantly. The sad part is you can’t overcome your bagage on the issue to not only not give Bush – or Clinton – any credit you are worrying about credit at all AND falling upon your usual talking points. I think that’s a shame.
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It also shows that, unfortunately, 9/11 has receded from our memories to the point where we actually care about such things. If this had happened a month or two after 9/11, people I know wouldn’t have been switching the channel after the President’s speech AND I don’t think you would give a dámņ who was getting credit and who wasn’t and by whom.
Except the humor, like any old joke that gets repeated over and over, ceases to become funny after a while.
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Perhaps. But between the reactions, both in the past week, to Obama’s birth certificate (“It’s fake!”) to Superman’s actions (“He hates America; it’s a lefty liberal agenda at work!”) I don’t think it’s ceased being funny yet.
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I’m surprised that you’re disappointed that I didn’t say something that others are saying all over the blogosphere, I apologize for writing something contrary to expectations.
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And not for nothing, but I don’t think you get to talk to me about holding on to baggage when the conservatives nurse so many grudges against Obama that their lips are permanently stuck in a sucking shape.
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PAD
In fairness, Darin didn’t try to make this all about Bush – he gave Obama credit for carrying through with the hunt, and giving the kill order.
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Jay Tea is the one you want to aim this at.
Are you sure about that — “Oh, I give Obama credit — he fully deserves his share of it. I’ll even give him the lion’s share.” Jay Tea
“I’m surprised that you’re disappointed that I didn’t say something that others are saying all over the blogosphere, I apologize for writing something contrary to expectations.”
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No need. Your taking another shot at conservatives versus just being happy we got the son of a bìŧçh is totally expected. This is something 99% of the country is happy about and you’d rather be polarizing.
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“And not for nothing, but I don’t think you get to talk to me about holding on to baggage when the conservatives nurse so many grudges against Obama that their lips are permanently stuck in a sucking shape.”
It’s a great day. Instead of being positive you choose to attack and belittle those you disagree with and be sarcastic. Pity.
Hëll, you could talk about the brilliant strategy that allowed us to get him – one that even O’Reilly and Peters said was brilliant. But that would be too complicated. ley’s bash the birthers instead, which is something you’ve done multiple times in the past and will no doubt do many times in the future.
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It’s a historic day and you’d rather bìŧçh about perceived grudges against Obama? Have at that if it makes you happy. I’ll gibe credit to my President and the military for getting the job done, thanks.
As they sung about the witch of the east in “The Wizard of Oz”
He is not just merely dead
He’s really quite sincerely dead.
And then there’s this:
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http://0.tqn.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/9/3/4/obama-about-birth-certificate.jpg
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Wait… I just heard something on the local radio that, if true, was just hilarious as hëll.
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Not only did Obama get to announce officially that bin Laden was dead last night, but his announcement kicked the last half of Trump’s ‘Celebrity Apprentice’ off of the air!
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Sweet… 🙂
Apparently it’s true.
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PAD
Yes, it is. When I first saw the news begin to break on Twitter, I went and turned on the TV to flip between CNN and MSNBC. They were both starting to cover it.
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Since MSNBC was simply using the same feed as NBC, I switched to NBC. And I noticed right away that, in fact, it had interrupted Celebrity Apprentice.
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It was a nice little bonus.
Not going to miss Osama, for sure. He wasnt even proper looking as a pop icon. But…
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…nauseated to read people saying this prove Guantanamo is justified because it worked. If you think the main problem with Guantanamo is that it wasnt working well enough to fight terrorism (not “terror”, fighting “terror” is a stupid expresion) you carry in your brain the same root of evil that ends up in every different kind of totalitarism.
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You either act on principles or you dont.
No kidding.
Osama’s fanatics that executed the 9/11 hijackings thought their ends justified their means…
One word of caution–it is perfectly reasonable to speculate that we are not being given the exact story. This has nothing to do with any grand conspiracy, just reality. Although it looks very much like the events did happen yesterday i would guess that, given their druthers, the administration and military would have preferred to have kept the news quiet for a bit and then give out false information about the particulars. No doubt some good intell was found at the site and if the bad guys knew we had it days ago they would be even more panicked than they are today.
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The only aspect of this operation I think was mishandled was the burial at sea and even that I can understand. I don’t think we had any need to observe Muslim law regarding disposal of the body, in fact not doing so would make it clear that we believe Osama was not legitimately a Muslim. It will give credence to those who will deny his death. Not the birther looney toons, they are of no consequence, but the true believer jihadists.
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At the very least i hope we have photographic proof, ghoulish as it might be. Saddam’s pathetic end did a lot to dissuade anyone from making him a martyr, we need to show Osama in the same sorry light.
I’ve seen it reported that photos were taken. Apparently some fake ones are already circulating (and I expect the ‘Elvis’ sightings to happen before long). But I have no idea whether those photos might eventually be released.
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As to the burial at sea, I do think it was best. It prevents any chance of finding his body or trying to make it a site to visit. That, and I doubt we were going to go showing it off anyways, even if we chose not to show respect to Islamic burial rites.
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And are we really in a position to say he’s not a legitimate Muslim? A lot of crazy people say they’re (insert religion here). Others of said religion will try and claim that they’re not real/true (insert religion here) as a way of distancing themselves.
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(Or, on the flip side, others will try and claim somebody is truly representative of (insert religion here) as a way of demonizing the entire religion.)
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But I’ve always felt that was a matter between the individual in question and their god, not what others think or say.
It doesn’t matter if he was. It’s in our interests to portray him as NOT a legitimate Muslim.
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I get the reason we dumped him to the fish–we want no memorial, no grave site. I’d have cremated him. They declined to do so supposedly because it is against Islam to do that but so it burial at sea when burial at land is available (Though I doubt any country wanted his corpse befouling the land).
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The pictures need to be made available. When you’re dealing with primitive conspiracy minded screwheads as sometimes seen in Cairo and trump casinos, you have to show them the goods.
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Then again I half expected Al Queida to claim he was alive and send out some tapes to “prove” it but so far even his allies are accepting the inevitable and waving their fists impotently so maybe there won’t be much disbelief at the prospect of Osama dining on Zaqqum in Jahannum.
In the end, this is one of those times where I’m glad I’m not one of the people that has to make these kinds of decisions. 🙂
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“I get the reason we dumped him to the fish–we want no memorial, no grave site.”
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That’s why we’re doing it? Really? Shìŧ… I thought we were doing that why because it’s Obama and Obama does things “the Chicago way.”
That’s the New York Way. Vito Corleone made the Chicago crew look like chumps (though, in fact, it was the Tattaglia family that sent Luca Brazi to his watery grave).
As to the burial at sea, I do think it was best. It prevents any chance of finding his body or trying to make it a site to visit.
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So his head on a pike at Ground Zero would have been off the table, huh.
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PAD
Well, as a B5 fan who really loves Vir’s “head on a pike line” to Morden, yeah, personally, I’d consider that off the table.
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Like I said, I’m glad I don’t have to make these kinds of decisions. If given the chance, I’d piss on the grave, too. But in the end that really serves little purpose.
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While bin Laden’s death stills provides the extremists a martyr, by following Islamic tradition and not parading the body around, we have denied the extremists additional ammunition. And all too often since 9/11 we’ve done the latter.
You just beat me to it, Craig. I went to youtube and dug up the reference and was about to post it. Ah well, here it is anyway.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DfQcHMYLY
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“That’s the New York Way. Vito Corleone made the Chicago crew look like chumps (though, in fact, it was the Tattaglia family that sent Luca Brazi to his watery grave).”
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Like I would know. I hate mob films.
Craig – If there’s any demonstratable proof of his having used women as shields to avoid being shot, I think that would put paid to any attempt to elevate him to martyrdom.
I have a conspiracy theory for all of you: No one has reported what the various sailors of the U.S.S. Carl Vinson may or may not have done to burial site… I’m not expecting depth charge practice here. Cause, you know, depth charges are expensive. I’m just saying that it wouldn’t surprise me if the coordinates where his body was dumped had some signifigance to U.S. Navy waste management specialists.
Unfortunately, Osama was designed by Square Enix and therefore has at least three more forms we have to destroy. (Hee, nerd humor.)
Yeah, but since we went and killed the optional, tougher boss first, we’ll be leveled up enough that it won’t be a problem.
This is why I ALWAYS do the sidequests first!
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Anybody remember this?
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”
Obama said if elected in November 2008 he would be willing to attack inside Pakistan with or without approval from the Pakistani government, a move that would likely cause anxiety in the already troubled region.
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“If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won’t act, we will,” Obama said.
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The Illinois Democrat is trying to convince Americans he has the foreign policy heft to be president after a rival candidate, New York Democratic Sen. Hillary Clinton, questioned his readiness to be commander in chief.”
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/08/01/us-usa-politics-obama-idUSN0132206420070801
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This led to such foolish freak outs and buffoonery as…
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—
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LIMBAUGH: Well, we’ve got another tape from — I get these guys confused — Usama bin Laden. Another tape says he’s going to invade Pakistan and declare war on Pakistan and Musharraf, which, ladies and gentlemen, puts him on the same page with a Democrat presidential candidate — that would be Barack “Uss-Obama.” And let’s go back to August 1st: “U-Bama” gave a speech on counterterrorism, and here’s a portion of what he said.
OBAMA [audio clip]: If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf will not act, we will.
LIMBAUGH: All right, so, we’re going to attack Pakistan. Poor Musharraf’s going to get it on both ends if Barack’s elected.
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—
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Bill Kristol: “It began with Democratic presidential candidates competing in their antiwar pandering. It ended with them having second thoughts–with Barack Obama, losing ground to Hillary Clinton because he seemed naive about real world threats, frantically suggesting that he would invade Pakistan.”
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—
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John Gibson: “Obama suggested we invade Pakistan, this week. He’s a loser.”
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ROVE: Yes. The question is: Senator Obama’s campaign said we’re going to discharge this foreign policy adviser who’s talking to Hamas, but we have a candidate who says we’ll talk to the state sponsor of Hamas, Syria’s Assad, and we’ll talk to the state sponsor of Hezbollah —
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HANNITY: Yeah.
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ROVE — Iran, without precondition. And so, my point — you did the right thing by discharging this guy, but it highlights a weakness of Senator Obama, which is his inexperience in international affairs led him to give an answer in the YouTube/CNN debate, which he’s going to regret, which was, I’m going to, he said, without precondition, be willing to meet with, you know, sort of the rogue’s gallery, if you will, of terror states and bad actors internationally.
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HANNITY: And maybe invade an ally like Pakistan and potentially create a theocracy with nuclear weapons.
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ROVE: Right.
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HANNITY: That’s even more frightening, isn’t it, Karl?
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ROVE: Right.
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HANNITY: Yeah.
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ROVE: Well, look, look, and again, this goes back to the inexperience that he has. Remember, he — you’re right about Pakistan. We’ve talked briefly about what he said with regard to the rogue state. But you remember, also, he said he had more experience in international affairs than either Senator Clinton or Senator McCain. And he cited as this that he had grown up and he’d spent time as a child in a foreign country, and he had visited Pakistan while he was a college student.
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HANNITY: All right. I think there are five issues that have totally changed the narrative on Senator Obama, and we’ve talked a lot about them: Reverend Wright; the association, the friendship with Bill Ayers; his comments in San Francisco; his wife’s comments about America being mean and not being proud of her country. And also, I think, it’s this issue of, you know, negotiating without preconditions with dictators in the world —
ROVE: Right.
HANNITY: — like Iran and Syria —
ROVE: Right.
HANNITY: — and possibly invading an ally, Pakistan.
ROVE: Yeah.
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Fox News analyst Ralph Peters: “But right now, he can’t play the Iraq card, so he’s trying very hard to play the Afghanistan card. And frankly, what he’s saying about Afghanistan and Pakistan is loonier than anything he’s said about Iraq. For instance, the idea that we should send ground troops into Pakistan — look, our troops only get their supplies, their water, their food, their gasoline, their bullets, their spare parts through Pakistan. So, we’re going to invade the country through which we get our supplies — that means the routes closed. We can’t resupply them –”
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He never said he would invade. He said he would act on intelligence about high-value terrorist targets in Pakistan. Osama bin Laden was a high-value terrorist targets, he acted on the intelligence and now Osama is sleeping with the fish.
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Obama did exactly what he promised he would do.
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Wonder how these guys will spin the news today and tonight to not look like the buffoons they are?
As shown above, they will utterly ignore what they said before, deny it if it’s brought to their attention, and give all the credit to Bush and torturing prisoners at Gitmo.
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Fox “News” 101, Jerry. 🙂
Good riddance to a rotten piece of garbage. Does it really matter who did what when during the 10-year hunt? That’s all a political sideshow, since both Republican and Democratic administrations had a big hand in the whole process. And to be perfectly honest, it was most likely apolitical (i.e., non-appointed) American intelligence and military people who kept their nose on the trail and finally pinpointed the scumbag. Kudos to President Obama for having the political gumption to order the strike and to Navy Seal Team 6 for “sealing” the deal. And triple kudos to whoever suggested grabbing the body and burying it at sea.
Yeah, Russ, it matters who did what. It matters for, among other things, the reasons Jerry pointed out. That during the campaign, when Obama put forward this exact scenario, he was thoroughly lambasted for it. It’d be nice to see the talking heads step up and say, “We were wrong about him.”
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PAD
Although it is possible for people to be happy about Bin Laden’s death and still disagree with the rightness of armed incursions into foreign countries we are ostensibly allied with…just as one can be glad he was killed and still be upset with the techniques that got the information that was used to kill him, right?
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Me, I have no problem with doing whatever in Pakistan–the bášŧárd lived there for who knows how long and nobody in the Pakistani government had a clue? We’re looking in cave and he was living it up in a mansion.
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I just hope we don’t cut and run from Afghanistan before ensuring that Al Queda is well and truly decapitated. They must be demoralized now, time to really apply the screws. Obama is fighting large segments of his base on this and needs the support of people who may disagree with him on other issues.
Yeah, Peter, but that’s partisan politics. One side blasts the other side no matter what they do. Attacks are rarely nuanced or put into any sort of historical context. Bush was hammered for doing some of the exact same things Clinton and/or Obama did, and vice versa. I try real hard not to play that game. For example, in 2004 I voted for Bush for president, and Obama for the U.S. Senate — something that would generally cause a partisan Republican’s or partisan Democrat’s head to explode.
In the war on terror, there should be no Republican or Democrat, because we are all at risk. I initially had my worries about President Obama’s anti-terror policies because he seemed unrealistically (even Pollyanna-ishly) soft on terror. But in the past year or so, he has hardened considerably on the issue, culminating in this strike. For that he gets all the credit in the world, and he may have just earned this independent voter’s nod in 2012.
That will happen at around the same time Trump apologizes for questioning Obama’s citizenship and leading others to believe the same.
Yes, that would be nice. Fortubately, the few talking heads I’ve seen – Bill O’Reilly and Ralph Peters among them – have agreed that the operation was flawless in planning and execution.
Now let’s hope his (Osama’s) replacement is more interested in grand, big, easier-to-foil plots than just killing Americans in smaller terror attacks.
I disagree. A big plot may be easier to foil but it only has to work once.
True, but the smaller ones (think all the suicide bombers in Israel) are a lot harder to stop without ripping the Constitution to shreds…
That’s an interesting point.
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I guess a lot depends on how big is “big”. some scenarios are near apocalyptic.
hello PAD ,are you glad laden is dead? Do you Wish it had been sooner?do you refuse to be gleeful about the death of anyone?
I’d love to be able to take the high road. I’d love to be able to say that the death of one diminishes us all, or state that I wish he’d survived so he could stand trial.
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Honestly, though, I’m glad the bášŧárd’s dead. “Gleeful” isn’t the right word. A sense of relief, more than anything, particularly when I think about what he’s put the survivors of 9/11 through.
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PAD
Best summation of feelings I’ve seen:
I think i’m very intelligent (at least by the Sirius Cybernetics standard put forth in the Infocom HHGttG game), because i can be unhappy about the death of anyone, anywhere – in the abstract – and doing a Happy Dance about Osama’s demise at the same time.
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Pìššìņg on his grave (if there was one) might be a bit excessive.
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Spitting would probably be okay, though.
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From the wording of that comment, I think it’s a setup to ore based on threads like ‘Offered Without Comment’ where Falwell’s death got discussed. However, it’s not much of a setup since pretty much all of us being “gleeful” last night and today pretty much made clear in that thread and others that there’s a difference between the deaths of šhìŧhëádš you disagree with and mass murdering bášŧárdš.
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Besides, I think you’re being fairly consistent with the theoretical & the reality.
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Posted by: Peter David at May 16, 2007 08:37 AM
If Osama bin Laden’s head turns up tomorrow, I’m not going to give a dámņ about anything other than, “Good, the bášŧárd’s dead.” But Falwell? I just don’t see the point.
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Peter David:
May 2, 2011 at 1:15 pm
Honestly, though, I’m glad the bášŧárd’s dead. “Gleeful” isn’t the right word. A sense of relief, more than anything, particularly when I think about what he’s put the survivors of 9/11 through.
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Seems fairly consistent to me.
To paraphrase Steve Martin: that Mark Twain has a quote for EVERYthing.
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PAD
How the hëll do you find these comments of mine so fast, Jerry?
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PAD
That’s Detective Chandler to you, civilian.
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It’s like a game with him on facebook, one I lose more often than not. I’m still trying to figure out how the daughter of a friend, the most apolitical kid I know, sprung the news last night a good 20 minutes before I did.
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I have a weird tick with my memory that has driven me crazy for most of my academic life. I can study something and study something and study something and still have issues remembering it when I need it most. I carry crib notes in my clipboard of Virginia Codes that I don’t write tickets and whatnot every day for because of that.
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The flipside is that I remember things that I don’t even want to and do so without trying. Conversations that aren’t that big a deal, blog discussions, conversations other people are having in the room, crap on the TV and radio in the background that I’m not even watching, etc. just slam into the memory banks and stay there for easy access.
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Makes me a mean Trivial Pursuit player though.
I have a weird tick with my memory that has driven me crazy for most of my academic life.
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Good lord, man. A weird tick? The best thing to do for that is to cover it with clear nail polish. That should kill it and allow you to remove it. Just be careful the head doesn’t come off and stay attached.
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Unless, of course, you meant to say “tic.”
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Spooooooon!
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PAD
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Or toc…
This is what I put up when I heard the news:
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I do not take pleasure in the death of a man. Instead I celebrate the triumph of justice and order, and the expulsion of evil from this world.
From the “Comments” section of Who Was Hiding bin Laden? on The Daily Beast:
It’s the sixth comment posted (not counting replies to comments), and all the ones before it are a single long-winded jerk pushing an anti-Pakistan agenda.
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(Trying again without the link to the article)
Can you imagine what a scary moment it must have been for everyone involved when that helicopter failed? Visions of Jimmy Carter’s Operation Eagle Claw must have seemed terrifyingly real.
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of course it was that fiasco that gave us SEAL Team 6, the group that carried out this mission, (even though they aren’t officially recognized. Here is one of their stories that never happened, from one of their files that doesn’t exist)
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It’s possible we will never know the name of the man who pulled the trigger, which is probably best for his family. Hope he got some swell swag for the effort though.
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A new delightful wrinkle–they knew they had the right guy when his wife called him out by name. So I’m guessing the second to last thing to go through his mind was “D’Oh!”
The little bits and pieces that are being leaked are fascinating, but there are also conflicting pieces of info.
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For example, initially it was reported that 2 helicopters were involved in the assault, but now I’ve read it was actually 4. And that the one that was destroyed wasn’t shot down, but it was in an area where it was forced to land and then was unable to take off again.
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While I don’t think all these little leaks are harming national security, I guess I am a bit surprised that we’re learning so much so soon.
Some may be misdirection. They must have the skies over Pakistan flooded with drones, looking for Al Queda guys running out of houses in their underwear.
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Some of it is media running with unsupported reports. Can’t remember who I was watching last night but they made a big deal about how well the secret had been kept in the week since he’d been killed and how remarkable that was and how it showed such amazing discipline and then it turns out he’d been dead for less than a day.
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Dirty Ðìçk Marcinkoand his boys must be feeling like proud pappa’s right now.
Dirty Ðìçk Marcinko and his boys must be like proud pappa’s right now.
True. It will be awhile before the full story will be known, or or as much of it as we’ll get. But it’s still fascinating nonetheless.
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Speaking of the media, the desperation to get a scoop of any kind is apparently so great that some outlets ran a fake bin Laden death photo… one that has been floating about the internet for some time now. Doh.
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And, of course, some conservatives and conservative pundits spent part of the day discussing the fake photo that the Obama Administration put out there.
NONE of what Obama does will matter to the ‘Right.’
Obama could cure Cancer and Aids travel back in time, kill Hitler and personally write a check to take care of America’s debt and the ‘Right’ still won’t give a flying fish.
What I find really upsetting is now ‘The Donald’ is asking for his school ‘papers.’
Is it just me or does consistently asking a Black man for his ‘papers’ sound like the South won the war?
Is it just me or does consistently asking a Black man for his ‘papers’ sound like the South won the war?
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No. Germany.
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PAD
When I heard that they got him in a mansion, I remembered what She-Hulk “said” in Marinmer: “I don’t get it. Why does evil have all the best diggs? I’m living in an R.V.” 🙁
Hoping this is true: “Al-Qaeda mastermind Osama bin Laden used one of his wives as a human shield in an apparent attempt to try to save his own life during a raid by US covert forces, a top US official said Monday.”
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“From a visual perspective, here is bin Laden who has been calling for attacks, living in this million dollar plus compound, living in an area that’s far removed from the front, hiding behind women who were put in front of him as a shield,” he said.
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Osama may go down as the Greg Stillson of terrorists.
“Osama may go down as the Greg Stillson of terrorists.”
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Excellent Dead Zone reference. I was thinking just the same thing.
Children, children, enough. It’s not about Bush vs Obama. In the words of a certain world-conquering rodent, “Focus, Pinky, focus.” It’s about the fact that the U.S. has just sent one very strong signal to the bad guys. It’s said “OK, we got a little sidetracked back there, but we never really gave up. We’re coming for you. And, if we got him, we can get you too. So play nice, or else.”
More like “Do something bad to us and the current (at time of the event) Pres will preach fire and brimstone and threaten, then he will get distracted by something that has nothing to do with you, while still beating the drum of you being enemy #1, leaving the actual finding of you to the next administration. We’re coming for you, it’ll just take us almost 10 years”
Anyone else troubled by the fact that Bin Laden was found, not in a remote cave in the Pakistani mountains, but in a million dollar mansion in an affluent suburb of Islamabad? Only blocks away from from a military installation?
The only troubling thing about it is how unsurprising it is.
What Sasha says. In some very real ways we are at war with Pakistan just as much if not more than we are with Afghanistan.
“I am so not surprised I could just moult!”
It’s been mentioned here and there. I’m sure the people over at the State Department (or whoever handles the diplomatic stuff in the U.S.) have been working overtime rubbing the Pakistani government’s nose in it. And probably playing it up with the Indian government as well, especially given the latter aren’t terribly well inclined towards terrorists after the hotel massacres there a while back.
On a more pleasant aside, I am really looking forward to Stewart/Colbert tonight.
MEMO
May 1, 2011
From: Office of the President
To: U.S. Department of Lost and Found
Thanks you for finding my birth certificate and Osama Bin Laden in the same week. Keep up the good work.
Barack Obama
**********************************************************
From the Satanic News Service
May 1, 2011
There was a disturbance in Hëll today as Osama Bin Laden was greeted by hundreds of enraged and disappointed suicide bombers. As Mr. Bin Laden was repeatedly sodomized and gang-raped by the crowd, Hëll’s security officers seemed to be on a permanent coffeebreak. Updates on the hour.
While it’s good that they got him (though not happy about how they got the original clue), I fear there is a fallout in the making.
This year is the 10th anniversary of 9/11 and Al-Qaeda will need to prove, that they can still work without Osama. If they can’t, they may be as good as finished.
For all the “cons” out there trying to give GW Bush the credit for the killing of bin Laden, I’ll make you a deal: I’ll say it was Bush that got bin Laden and not Obama if you say it was Harry Truman who beat the Soviets and not Ronald Reagan.
Oh, and didn’t anyone notice the announcement preempted the final half hour of “Celebrity Apprentice”? COINCIDENCE??
“I am sorry, but if you believe the newest death of OBL, you’re stupid. Just think to yourself–they paraded Saddam’s dead sons around to prove they were dead–why do you suppose they hastily buried this version of OBL at sea? This lying, murderous Empire can only exist with your brainwashed consent–just put your flags away and THINK!”
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So can we all now consider Cindy Sheehan a loon now?
This is a woman who thinks that Bush and Obama are basically the same, so be my guest.
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PAD
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Well dámņ… I thought most of us here said that she was a loon back when she was demanding meetings with Bush.
Yeah, I for one pretty much wrote her off as a charter member of the Wackaloon Brigade back when she was stalking Dubya. You mean somebody’s still paying attention to her?
Once upon a time, her cause was worthwhile. She had lost her son, and the government covered it up. I can’t blame her for being angry and wanting the truth that the government refused to acknowledge for a long time.
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I don’t recall hearing anything of her the last few years – basically, since she finally left the Bush ranch.
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Seems like the anti-war stuff has gotten in her head in the worst way, making her no better than some of the other conspiracy nuts out there.
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I think you’re mixing up fallen soldiers Craig and I certainly don’t mean this to be glib in anyway possible. Pat Tillmans death was covered up as a friendly fire incident and possibly more. Both senseless deaths nonetheless.
Oi, crap. Yeah, my awful mistake on conflating the two and not thinking before hitting Submit. Thanks for pointing that out, Pat.
I think — for a brief while, anyway — that this is one of the unfortunately few moments when Americans can come together in celebration. Driving to and from work, I heard several folks on Fox News radio, and both Limbaugh and Sean Hannity had nothing but positives to say about the news and how Obama handled it. (They still had to get in digs on Obama on “anti-capitalism economic policies” though.) Some callers (and, I’m sure, bloggers) tried to give the credit to George W. Bush for laying the groundwork (funny how Obama gets blamed for the bad economy two years in, but he has to share credit for this) or worry that Obama would capitalize on this during his campaign (as opposed to all the Republicans who citd 9/11 in virtually every campaign slogan back in 2004) — but just about all conservative/Republican leaders are praising Obama for how he handled this.
And, as a former New Yorker (who lived there during 9/11), I felt a great deal of satisfaction and pride when I heard the news last night.
P.S. That Twain quote may not be quite right: http://www.dorktower.com
Not all Republican leaders. Sarah Palin was the most notable exception. She praised the military, she praised the intelligence people. Not a word about the President.
It is sad that a half-term governor of a state so underpopulated it doesn’t have counties is considered a “Republican leader”…
Well, Palin has been outshined and out-crazied by Donald Trump lately, so she probably thinks or knows her best bet is to take every possible opportunity to be as anti-Obama as possible. And if that means she’s the only one who didn’t acknowledge the President’s role in killing Bin Laden, that’s her hope for stirring up the base again. Sad, really.
Worth mentioning: Any event that brings Mets and Phillies fans together is a significant one.
I wonder if Obama decided to put an end to the whole birth certificate now after ignoring it all this time because he knew he was going to make birthers look very stupid in a short while?
I heard Obama was watching the soldiers carry out their mission to get Osama.
Conspiracy theory!!!!
Was he controlling one of them with an xbox controller?
Also, does this mean that when Aquaman kills his next enemy he can bury them on land?
To pursue PAD’s original intent:
Eric Cantor’s faint praise;
“I commend President Obama who has followed the vigilance of President Bush in bringing Bin Laden to justice.”
To which Barney Frank said;
“Well first of all, I think, let’s give discredit where it is due. For Eric Cantor to phrase it that way, to say he followed the vigilance of President Bush is a degree of key partisanship that exceeded what I even expected from Cantor. That’s just sad. […]
If Bush had gotten Osama after Clinton had failed do you think Eric Cantor would’ve given Clinton credit and said, “Oh good Bush got Osama bin Laden, he showed the same vigilance as Bill Clinton”? No. Not even close.
Of course he wouldn’t. And if Bush had done that would Nancy pelosi have said, as she did yesterday “The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida” or would she have stuck with her 2006 assessment that “even to capture him now I don’t think makes us any safer.”
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Politicians scrambling for spin, who have thunk it? Look at how the Joint Special Operations Command has gone from “Cheney’s Death Squad” to heroes of the day.
I don’t see how Pelosi’s two statements are in contradiction. It is a significant development as bin Laden was behind 9/11. But it is also true that it likely doesn’t make us any safer, as evidenced by the heightened security across the country yesterday.
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And no, Bush did not show vigilance; 9/11 and Afghanistan were merely the means to an end: to make Iraq his legacy. And boy did he achieve that beyond his wildest dreams for all the wrong reasons.
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Oh, and put Palin among those who gives only credit to Bush and the military and none to Obama. The fact that even a Rush Limbaugh praise Obama for this and Palin won’t speaks volumes about how desperately out of touch she is.
Sorry, but this task force, within the Military command, is a far cry from Cheney’s Death Squad, no quotes because that is what it was;
“The JOSC, Hersh said, is “a special wing of our special operations community that is set up independently. They do not report to anybody, except in the Bush-Cheney days, they reported directly to the Cheney office. They did not report to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff or to Mr. [Robert] Gates, the secretary of defense…
“Congress has no oversight of it. It’s an executive assassination ring essentially, and it’s been going on and on and on. Just today in the Times there was a story that its leaders, a three star admiral named [William H.] McRaven, ordered a stop to it because there were so many collateral deaths.
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“Politicians scrambling for spin, who have thunk it? Look at how the Joint Special Operations Command has gone from “Cheney’s Death Squad” to heroes of the day.”
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What Cheney had set up and SEAL Team 6 ain’t even close to the same things.
I may be misinformed. Wasn’t it the Joint Special Operations Command that was A-called Cheney’s Death Squad and B- the ones who are credited in Wikipedia as for “coordination of Operation Geronimo that resulted in the death of Osama Bin Laden on May 1, 2011 near Islamabad, Pakistan”?
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Did congress have oversight of this assassination operation? I’m not sure I’d count on them to be able to keep an operation like that secret so i kind of hope not, though I can see where that has potential problems.
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Craig, I’m not saying that Pelosi’s two statements are in contradiction, but do you not think that one has a considerably more positive spin than the other? If Palin or beck or anyone had just said yesterday “This doesn’t make us any safer.” they would be rightly accused of trying to diminish Obama’s accomplishment. People who praise the military and ignore Obama are also telling truths but it’s how they do it and what they leave out that tells the tale. Maybe you think I’m wrong and that Pelosi would have said the exact same thing if a Republican were in the White House. I totally doubt it but it’s pure speculation I guess.
I don’t know if you’re wrong or not, Bill. In 2006, it seemed like we weren’t going to be getting bin Laden any time soon anyways (which was unfortunately true), and we were mired in Iraq.
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In the end, though, I think a fairer comparison would be to see what Pelosi said after Saddam Hussein was captured, for example.
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But since I myself don’t think we’re necessarily any safer, it would be hypocritical of me to go after anybody of any political affiliation for saying it as well.
Well, I think the military did a great job…but if someone says only that and excludes the president’s leadership from the praise I think they are guilty of partisanship through omission. And bad form besides.
My understanding was that the original JSOC was disbanded, for reasons cited above, and its operational title given to SEAL Team Six – because sometimes you really do have to know for sure which team has the biggest badasses in it. All SEAL units are considered “elite”, but Team Six is held to an even higher standard, which they seem to have executed brilliantly (nighttime insertion by helicopter in extremely hostile territory, target killed, body recovered, [b]no casualties on Team Six[/b]).
And if Bush had done that would Nancy pelosi have said, as she did yesterday “The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida” or would she have stuck with her 2006 assessment that “even to capture him now I don’t think makes us any safer.”
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I don’t see the two sentiments as mutually exclusive. I mean, Obama and public officials have basically said the same thing, even now, talking about how this isn’t the end of anything. Security has been stepped up in New York, everyone’s bracing themselves and talking about reprisals. It IS the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. Anyone who says otherwise is either kidding themselves or pushing an agenda. By the same, we’re not “safer” in that there are still thousands of terrorists out there. We have taken a step TOWARD being safer, particularly with the capture of tons of information about their operations.
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Also, simply capturing bin Laden might actually have made us less safe, particularly if he were to be tried here. He would have been around to make public statements, inflame his followers, and it would have been a year of all bin Laden, all the time. So in that regard in particular, Pelosi was absolutely right.
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PAD
Again, I did not say her sentiments were wrong, simply that her choice of which spin to put on this seems to depend on whether or not a member of her party gets to take credit. Why did she not express her doubts about whether or not this would make us safer yesterday? Some may see those statements as interchangeable; I don’t. And again, I suspect anyone who said her 2006 statement would have been chastised today.
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I think there may be some confusion here–Seal team 6 is not the same thing as Joint Special Operations Command. They are separate entities. Seal Team 6 did not replace JSOC, in fact they are operationally commanded by the JSOC.
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I’m still left wondering when the JSOC went from a death squad to heroes…especially since we are today celebrating them for an assassination that involved as=n attack across the border of a sovereign nation. Me, I have no problem with that but I’d like to know how those who previously saw this as a violation of international law and evidence of unconstitutional excesses in the war on terror came around to my way of thinking.
Again, I did not say her sentiments were wrong, simply that her choice of which spin to put on this seems to depend on whether or not a member of her party gets to take credit.
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* shrug * I see it as purely situational. I have zero reason to assume that if Bush had gotten the job done (rather than, y’know, talking about how he didn’t give bin Laden much thought) that Pelosi would not have praised him. And if she had added, “But we’re not necessarily safer,” well, that’s pretty much what others are saying. So I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make. On the other hand, of course, if Bush had been the one overseeing bin Laden’s capture, Rush Limbaugh wouldn’t have been making sarcastic broadsides that diminished his leadership.
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PAD
Well it was pretty standard Democrat speculation at several times in Bush’s tenure that he HAD captured Bin Laden (or could do so at any time he chose) and was just waiting for the most politically opportune moment to reveal it. And this wasn’t just conspiracy cranks doing the speculation. So I don’t know if there would have been anywhere near the same outpouring of credit we see here. I have my doubts, but who knows? Didn’t happen. I try not to be one of those folks who claims they have absolutely no doubt in predicting what would have happened in some pretend alternate reality (having noted that those same people very seldom go out on a line and make predictions that can be proven wrong in THIS reality).
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Would Obama have been twisting in the wind if this had failed? Why would we even have known about it? It would have been just another attack. maybe some of those other drone bombings had also been done in the hope of hitting Osama and were instead just reported as targeting Al Queda. I doubt Obama was going to come on TV and tell anyone “We thought we had him but he got away. Just thought you’d like to know.” The only thing that I can see might have hurt him is if they had missed him some how and then word got out that they had the chance to bomb him and waited until a Seal 6 team was ready. Which is why I say he showed some real guts in his decision. It was the right choice since all evidence suggests that Osama was not a major threat per se–that being the case, his death does not mean as much as the fact that we killed him and we know we killed him. It’s largely symbolic–which is very very much NOT the same as unimportant. In this kind of war killing a figurehead can yield greater benefit than killing 10 competent warriors.
Or have someone like Sarah Palin say “God bless all the brave men and women in our military and our intelligence services who carried out a successful mission to bring Osama bin Laden to justice. We thank President Clinton for having made the right calls to set up this victory.”
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(as per http://www.kjct8.com/news/27760433/detail.html — Palin gave all the credit to Bush and conveniently forgot who actually greenlighted the mission)
It may be better than that: The mission team took a bunch of hard drives, thumb drives, etc. from the compound, very possibly scoring a mother lode of real intelligence — a nice by-product of a surprise raid where there would be no time to scrap evidence, or a bombing that would have destroyed it.
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This may be the real win against al Qaida. Even a fraction of actionable intel would be a coup.
There’s an old saying: Success has a thousand parents; failure is an orphan. I doubt many were scrambling to say they thought that Jimmy Carter’s attempts to get the hostages out of Iran was a good idea.
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If this attempt to get bin Laden had failed, Obama would be out twisting in the wind. It succeeded, so suddenly let’s spread the credit to his predecessor.
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PAD
Obama deserves as much credit for Bin Laden’s assassination as Nixon deserved for the moon landing.
I think it was Kennedy, not Nixon, who gave the change of direction to NASA that led to the Apolo landing. Much like Obama directed the CIA to make finding Bin Laden a priority.
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A more correct analogy would be to say that Bush deserves as much credit for Bin Laden’s assassination as Eisenhower deserved for the moon landing.
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Theno
If Kennedy, six months after pledging to put a man on the moon, had then said, “I truly am not that concerned about getting a man on the moon …. You know, I just don’t spend that much time on the idea, to be honest with you” — and then shut down the NASA department responsible for planning a moonshot a couple of years later, explaining that an “emphasis on a moon landing doesn’t fit with the administration’s strategy for winning the space race” — leaving Nixon to reboot the program, catch up on the years lost, and redouble efforts until finally the goal was realized, your analogy *might* have weight.
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However, that scenario, like your analogy, is utter bûllšhìŧ.
Darin,
Obama got him. Plain and simple. I don’t like many of his policies, but if you fail to give credit where credit is due, then no one with any sense will listen to you, even when you have a more plausible, rational argument.
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I am proud of our president right now.
There’s an old saying: Success has a thousand parents; failure is an orphan. I doubt many were scrambling to say they thought that Jimmy Carter’s attempts to get the hostages out of Iran was a good idea.
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If this attempt to get bin Laden had failed, Obama would be out twisting in the wind. It succeeded, so suddenly let’s spread the credit to his predecessor.
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PAD
This _will_ shake up the GOP field; every Republican candidate is going to have to be retrained to not answer every question with “9/11”, “in a post 9/11 world”, and similar phrases. (Giuliani isn’t running, is he ? 🙂 )
When I listened to Rush Limbaugh’s comments on the death of Bin Laden, it sounded like he was mocking, rather then giving genuine praise as he discussed the mission.
Politico had the same take on it:
(http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0511/54122.html )
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Rush did say it that way. He’s said as much himself.
So Rush was full of it after all? I had read the initial comments (apparently missing the context) and didn’t listen to them.
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That’s what I get for daring to think the man could possibly be genuine for once.
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From his newsletter.
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State-Run Media Falls Head Over Heels for Rush’s “Thank God for Obama!”
They wanted so much for Rush to mean it that they didn’t get the sarcasm. (Rush 24/7 Members: Listen)
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From his website.
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State-Run Media Totally Falls for Rush’s “Thank God for Obama”
May 3, 2011
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RUSH: “So a reporter who works this beat got the story correct. It’s just a little inside baseball, but during the program yesterday (actually in the third hour, if you were listening), I shared with you a piece from TheHill.com. I was kind of incredulous I was reading these pieces; and I hoped to get through these pieces maintaining full composure, but I was unable to. I had moments of silent laughter during the piece. I, frankly, was stunned. In all candor, folks, I was surprised. I started asking Snerdley, “Did I somehow not pull this off?” He said, “No way.” So we concluded that these people had to want to believe this so badly that they did. They wanted to believe “Thank God for Obama,” that only Obama was capable of this.
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“The military are a bunch of warmongering hawks. They were gonna go in and obliterate the place!” only Obama, Obama alone knew the right way to do this. So after the program I got an e-mail from H.R., my trusty and trusted who Chief of Staff said, “Look, just got a call fray guy at Reuters who read their original story and said this doesn’t sound right and wanted to listen to the program because he didn’t believe what other media people were writing about my original comments yesterday.” So he listened. So he did listen. He called H.R. back and said, “Sounds to me like there’s a little sarcasm here,” and H.R. said, “Well, don’t quote me, but I don’t think I could disagree with you on that.” So it was late in the day yesterday that they finally started correcting themselves. Hee-hee-hee-hee-hee-hee.”
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_050311/content/01125109.guest.html
So Rush’s practical joke was to pretend to be a decent human being, and the media, knowing that most people aren’t doughy jack-áššëš, fell for it.
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Yeah, typical Limbaugh …
10:45, or so, Sunday night I was at my ex-roommate’s apartment watching the WWE PPV. One of her friends called to say that Osama Bin Laden had been killed.
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He then complained for 10 minutes that Obama “obviously” announced it at that time specifically to interrupt Celebrity Apprentice and disrupt whatever announcement Trump was going to make.
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Theno
Like the MOTU said, Thenodrin, Obama could cure cancer and some people would accuse him of doing it in order to put doctors out of work.
Yes. It’s ridiculous. It reminds me of when people were absolutely convinced Bush already had him on ice somewhere and was going to “pull him out in October right before the election”.
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Sunday night is a terrible time for news. maybe he announced it then because he was sure he could announce it then? That all the is were dotted and ts were crossed.
They must have known that the WORST possible thing would be to announce his death and then have to take it back. They had to be sure. They also knew that if thye did not announce it that night it would have dribbled out somehow by morning.
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It’s really too bad the president wasn’t able to deliver it at the announced time since by the time he spoke we all knew what had happened but better safe than sorry. The number of conflicting stories that have come out since then, besides fueling the paranoids, just shows how news abhors a vacuum and will fill it any way possible. They had to get the story out even if some of the details were hazy. Those who see a grand conspiracy behind every discrepancy will do so; the rest of us know how messy reality can be.
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Despite the fact that now they are saying that Osama did NOT go down like a sniveling coward, hiding behind a woman, soiling the lace burka he wore because “it made him feel pretty” (I may have made that last part up) that is how I will choose to remember his last moments.
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“When the legend becomes fact, print the legend”
BTW, the quote “I’ve never wished a man dead, but I’ve read some obituaries with great pleasure” is by Clarence Darrow, *not* Mark Twain. Kudos to John Kovalic and his Dork Tower comic http://www.dorktower.com for letting me know about this (and to Google for quickly confirming it).
Just for the record: I never want to play poker against Obama.
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He’s been sitting on this for months, rushing to a crunch, and the only tell he gave of what was about to go down in a week filled with answering questions about birthers, speaking to Oprah, visiting tornado-stricken communities and NASA, giving a commencement address, and attending the White House Correspondents Dinner, was a perhaps-slightly-overhearty laugh at a bin Laden joke delivered by Seth Meyers the night before.
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The man is a walking Xanax tablet.
I hate to say I called it, but…
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/09/osama-bin-laden-death-skeptics-lynne-blankenbeker_n_859371.html?ncid=webmail
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PAD