I checked with John Jackson Miller who knows more about comic book sales than just about anybody. And he said that since 2001, unit sales on comics are in fact on the increase. The numbers he quoted are as follows:
2001 66.92 million copies
2002 73.72 million copies
2003 73.02 million copies
2004 74.14 million copies
2005 76.13 million copies
2006 81.85 million copies
2007 85.27 million copies
2008 81.34 million copies
Granted, 2008 was a drop off. But it’s ridiculous to try and pin THAT on the internet with the struggling economy.
I should not have made the assertion that sales were dropping without double checking. stand corrected.
PAD
• 
That’s interesting. Just about everything I’ve read from everyone in the industry is about how sales are down compared to just a few years ago, let alone a few decades ago. Maybe it’s just the “The Grass is Always Greener” syndrome.
I would ask though; those are just new monthlies or does that include TPB sales and special editions? I ask because the TPB market is the one thing that I keep seeing comic book publishers talking up as doing well for them and wonder if that would be enough to tip the balance if both figures were combined.
I believe it does, yes. If John’s reading this, which I’m pretty sure he will be, I’m sure he’d be happy to expand upon it.
PAD
Color me surprised…but there’s no question that the average selling marvel and DC comic is selling at numbers that would have embarrassed Charleton once upon a time. And the prices are higher so the companies must be happy with that trend. So…maybe my gloom over the viability of comic books was misplaced?
Have the companies made any effort to see where the new readers are coming from? Comicmix had an entry today casting doubt on S_B’s influence since it didn’t bump up the sales of a webcomic they sent there. Of course, one example does not prove anything. Seems to me it should not be too hard to get some answers–have people interview folks in comics stores. Offer them gift cards or something.
There’s an internet with a struggling economy?
My brain, it hurts… Time for bed.
Cheers.
Well playing devils avocado as Tracy Jordan would say…
It seems sales have really picked up since scans daily really hit its stride in 2004.
Comicmix had an entry today casting doubt on S_B’s influence since it didn’t bump up the sales of a webcomic they sent there.
It’s impossible to determine how much influence SB had on sales, except to point out two things: 1) Sales have been going up since 2001 and SB only began in 2003; 2) I’m told that the posting of sizable quantities of material in excess of fair use is relatively recent, and it’s in the last year that sales dropped. But again, it’s not fair to lay that at SB’s door considering the state of the economy.
PAD
Hey, Jerry. Those figures are, as seen here…
http://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html
…the unit sales for Diamond’s Top 300 comic books for all 12 months of each year. It does not capture comics outside the Top 300; it also does not capture comics sold by subscription or on the newsstand. That probably puts the 2008 total in the 90-100 million copy range.
Trade paperback sales are up, as well — 5% at Diamond and up as well in the bookstore trade in 2008 — continuing a long run of increases: http://blog.comichron.com/2009/02/bookscan-and-comics-big-year.html
Inflation is a factor in comics unit sales, but for several of these years, dollar sales increased by more than the rate of inflation. At…
http://blog.comichron.com/2008/11/average-retail-prices-for-comic-books.html
…you can see the average price of comics ordered from Diamond every month since 1996. We’ve gone up a dollar over the course of 12 years, or less than 50%. That, for comics, is slow price escalation — compared to some other periods, like the 1970s, when comic cover prices tripled over the course of the decade. It may be hard to believe that the average comic book ordered by retailers 10 years ago this month was already $2.57, but it’s true — and if we look back at the early 1990s, the market had been primed to accept prices at that level long before by the whole gimmick cover business. The best-selling Amazing Spider-Man issue ever, #375, had the same cover price as the Obama Spidey issue 16 years later: $3.95.
Comics unit sales were off dramatically in January 2009, even with the Obama Spider-Man, so it will be an interesting year to watch. The general economy did introduce price resistance in the 1970s, harming unit sales — but then, as now, the big factor will be the number of outlets carrying comics. Nothing I know of has a closer relationship with unit sales than the number of stores: Random unproven titles sold huge numbers in the 10,000-shop early 1990s, while even well-established titles suffered in the shop collapse of the late 1990s.
If only for the interests of clarification, are those numbers for monthly “floppies” (ecch) only, as opposed to trades, magazines, etc?
But as I’ve been saying, there’s no way to say those increases are based on anything in particular. Better marketing, more books people want, new sales locations and yes, web-sharing COULD all share the credit.
In an interview I once did with Alan Moore, he told me that there people in DC trying to make the argument that the thing that made Dark Knight Returns such a hit was its new printing format. “Which I find bewildering…” he remarked.
What’s the saying? Success has many fathers, failure is in orphan?
Hey, folks. Those figures are, as seen here…
http://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html
…the unit sales for Diamond’s Top 300 comic books for all 12 months of each year. It does not capture comics outside the Top 300; it also does not capture comics sold by subscription or on the newsstand. That probably puts the 2008 total in the 90-100 million copy range. These do not include magazines, which are a small portion (less than $10 million annually) of Diamond’s overall sales.
Trade paperback sales are up, as well — 5% at Diamond and up as well in the bookstore trade in 2008 — continuing a long run of increases: http://blog.comichron.com/2009/02/bookscan-and-comics-big-year.html
Inflation is a factor in comics unit sales, but for several of these years, dollar sales increased by more than the rate of inflation. At…
http://blog.comichron.com/2008/11/average-retail-prices-for-comic-books.html
…you can see the average price of comics ordered from Diamond every month since 1996. We’ve gone up a dollar over the course of 12 years, or less than 50%. That, for comics, is slow price escalation — compared to some other periods, like the 1970s, when comic cover prices tripled over the course of the decade. It may be hard to believe that the average comic book ordered by retailers 10 years ago this month was already $2.57, but it’s true — and if we look back at the early 1990s, the market had been primed to accept prices at that level long before by the whole gimmick cover business. The best-selling Amazing Spider-Man issue ever, #375, had the same cover price as the Obama Spidey issue 16 years later: $3.95.
It’s important to note these unit sales were up in the aggregate — but that does not speak to individual titles. For most individual titles, the unit-sales track is generally downward, but then that’s close to a “normal state” for many times in comics’ history. Aggregate increases can occur when a rising tide raises all ships — like in the early 1990s — but they also result from publishers renewing and expanding their slates.
Comics unit sales were off dramatically in January 2009, even with the Obama Spider-Man, so it will be an interesting year to watch. The general economy did introduce price resistance in the 1970s, harming unit sales — but then, as now, the big factor will be the number of outlets carrying comics. Nothing I know of has a closer relationship with unit sales than the number of stores: Random unproven titles sold huge numbers in the 10,000-shop early 1990s, while even well-established titles suffered in the shop collapse of the late 1990s.
Tried to post a couple of times here with no luck. Trying again…
The figures in question are, as seen here…
http://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html
…the unit sales for Diamond’s Top 300 comic books for all 12 months of each year. It does not capture comics outside the Top 300; it also does not capture comics sold by subscription or on the newsstand. That probably puts the 2008 total in the 90-100 million copy range. These do not include magazines, which are a small portion (less than $10 million annually) of Diamond’s overall sales.
Trade paperback sales are up, as well — 5% at Diamond and up as well in the bookstore trade in 2008 — continuing a long run of increases: http://blog.comichron.com/2009/02/bookscan-and-comics-big-year.html
Inflation is a factor in comics unit sales, but for several of these years, dollar sales increased by more than the rate of inflation. At…
http://blog.comichron.com/2008/11/average-retail-prices-for-comic-books.html
…you can see the average price of comics ordered from Diamond every month since 1996. We’ve gone up a dollar over the course of 12 years, or less than 50%. That, for comics, is slow price escalation — compared to some other periods, like the 1970s, when comic cover prices tripled over the course of the decade. It may be hard to believe that the average comic book ordered by retailers 10 years ago this month was already $2.57, but it’s true — and if we look back at the early 1990s, the market had been primed to accept prices at that level long before by the whole gimmick cover business. The best-selling Amazing Spider-Man issue ever, #375, had the same cover price as the Obama Spidey issue 16 years later: $3.95.
It’s important to note these unit sales were up in the aggregate — but that does not speak to individual titles. For most individual titles, the unit-sales track is generally downward, but then that’s close to a “normal state” for many times in comics’ history. Aggregate increases can occur when a rising tide raises all ships — like in the early 1990s — but they also result from publishers renewing and expanding their slates.
Comics unit sales were off dramatically in January 2009, even with the Obama Spider-Man, so it will be an interesting year to watch. The general economy did introduce price resistance in the 1970s, harming unit sales — but then, as now, the big factor will be the number of outlets carrying comics. Nothing I know of has a closer relationship with unit sales than the number of stores: Random unproven titles sold huge numbers in the 10,000-shop early 1990s, while even well-established titles suffered in the shop collapse of the late 1990s.
My prediction is that sales in 2009 will fall back to around 75 million copies. Therefore proving* that Scans Daily was a good thing.
* as if anything could prove this one way or another.
I’m having a devil of a time getting this comment to post — maybe it was the URLs I had in here. Anyway, the figures in question can be seen in the link above at Comichron.com. The numbers Peter mentions are the unit sales for Diamond’s Top 300 comic books for all 12 months of each year. It does not capture comics outside the Top 300; it also does not capture comics sold by subscription or on the newsstand. That probably puts the 2008 comic-book total in the 90-100 million copy range. These do not include magazines, which are a small portion (less than $10 million annually) of Diamond’s overall sales.
It also does not include trade paperbacks.Trade paperback sales are up, as well — 5% at Diamond and up as well in the bookstore trade in 2008 — continuing a long run of increases. Figure about 20-25 million TPBs between the mass market and Diamond.
Inflation is a factor in comics unit sales, but for several of these years, dollar sales increased by more than the rate of inflation. At…
http://blog.comichron.com/2008/11/average-retail-prices-for-comic-books.html
…you can see the average price of comics ordered from Diamond every month since 1996. We’ve gone up a dollar over the course of 12 years, or less than 50%. That, for comics, is slow price escalation — compared to some other periods, like the 1970s, when comic cover prices tripled over the course of the decade. It may be hard to believe that the average comic book ordered by retailers 10 years ago this month was already $2.57, but it’s true — and if we look back at the early 1990s, the market had been primed to accept prices at that level long before by the whole gimmick cover business. The best-selling Amazing Spider-Man issue ever, #375, had the same cover price as the Obama Spidey issue 16 years later: $3.95.
It’s important to note these unit sales were up in the aggregate — but that does not speak to individual titles. For most individual titles, the unit-sales track is generally downward, but then that’s close to a “normal state” for many times in comics’ history. Aggregate increases can occur when a rising tide raises all ships — like in the early 1990s — but they also result from publishers renewing and expanding their slates.
Comics unit sales were off dramatically in January 2009, even with the Obama Spider-Man, so it will be an interesting year to watch. The general economy did introduce price resistance in the 1970s, harming unit sales — but then, as now, the big factor will be the number of outlets carrying comics. Nothing I know of has a closer relationship with unit sales than the number of stores: Random unproven titles sold huge numbers in the 10,000-shop early 1990s, while even well-established titles suffered in the shop collapse of the late 1990s.
I’m having a devil of a time getting this comment to post — maybe it was the URLs I had in here. Anyway, all the figures in question can be seen in the link above at Comichron.com.
The numbers Peter mentions are the unit sales for Diamond’s Top 300 comic books for all 12 months of each year. It does not capture comics outside the Top 300; it also does not capture comics sold by subscription or on the newsstand. That probably puts the 2008 comic-book total in the 90-100 million copy range. These do not include magazines, which are a small portion (less than $10 million annually) of Diamond’s overall sales.
It also does not include trade paperbacks.Trade paperback sales are up, as well — 5% at Diamond and up as well in the bookstore trade in 2008 — continuing a long run of increases. Figure about 20-25 million TPBs between the mass market and Diamond.
Inflation is a factor in comics unit sales, but for several of these years, dollar sales increased by more than the rate of inflation. Tracking on my site the average price of comics ordered from Diamond every month since 1996, we see that we’ve gone up a dollar over the course of 12 years, or less than 50%. That, for comics, is slow price escalation — compared to some other periods, like the 1970s, when comic cover prices tripled over the course of the decade. It may be hard to believe that the average comic book ordered by retailers 10 years ago this month was already $2.57, but it’s true — and if we look back at the early 1990s, the market had been primed to accept prices at that level long before by the whole gimmick cover business. The best-selling Amazing Spider-Man issue ever, #375, had the same cover price as the Obama Spidey issue 16 years later: $3.95.
It’s important to note these unit sales were up in the aggregate — but that does not speak to individual titles. For most individual titles, the unit-sales track is generally downward, but then that’s close to a “normal state” for many times in comics’ history. Aggregate increases can occur when a rising tide raises all ships — like in the early 1990s — but they also result from publishers renewing and expanding their slates.
Comics unit sales were off dramatically in January 2009, even with the Obama Spider-Man, so it will be an interesting year to watch. The general economy did introduce price resistance in the 1970s, harming unit sales — but then, as now, the big factor will be the number of outlets carrying comics. Nothing I know of has a closer relationship with unit sales than the number of stores: Random unproven titles sold huge numbers in the 10,000-shop early 1990s, while even well-established titles suffered in the shop collapse of the late 1990s.
I guess we have to thank George Bush for something after all.
Been trying to post a response, but the system has been uncooperative. Testing now…
Yeah, I was wondering if it’s just Marvel and DC that are down and the “independents” are up…
Have not been able to post here for some reason — testing now.
Off Topic.
I HATE the new look.
I guess you won’t have to put up with any more of my drunken comments.
I am actually getting a headache trying to read everything.
Better marketing, more books people want, new sales locations and yes, web-sharing COULD all share the credit.
The success of movies based on Marvel characters should be another on that list.
Off Topic.
I HATE the new look.
I hated the format when I was posting the other night and said so, but issues with the space between paragraphs disappearing have gone away, a “view all” for the comments that I wasn’t seeing before (whether it wasn’t there or my browser was being a pain in the neck) has gotten rid of the problem I had with finding where I last left a thread when coming back a few hours later and the blue background is actually very easy on the eyes.
I’ve changed my vote from “Not a fan” to liking it quite a bit.
Dave, open the site up and then increase the page font size one or two times and the headache issue might go away.
You can’t credit or blame only s_d for the state of the comic industry. as a casual reader the industry does a lousy job at promoting outside of its current fan base. The current success of the movies can take some credit but the industry can’t depend on the movies to grab readers and then expect them all to check books outside the current movies like Iron Man or Batman. How many people who watch those movies are going to know about books like Runaways, She-Hulk, X- Factor or Thunderbots? Most people still think of comics as children entertainment. Personally if it weren’t for scans I wouldn’t have gotten into comics.
Been having troubles getting a response to post. Anyway, the figures in question are, as seen here…
http://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html
…the unit sales for Diamond’s Top 300 comic books for all 12 months of each year. It does not capture comics outside the Top 300; it also does not capture comics sold by subscription or on the newsstand. That probably puts the 2008 total in the 90-100 million copy range. These do not include magazines, which are a small portion (less than $10 million annually) of Diamond’s overall sales.
Trade paperback sales are up, as well — 5% at Diamond and up as well in the bookstore trade in 2008 — continuing a long run of increases:
http://blog.comichron.com/2009/02/bookscan-and-comics-big-year.html
Inflation is a factor in comics unit sales, but for several of these years, dollar sales increased by more than the rate of inflation. At…
http://blog.comichron.com/2008/11/average-retail-prices-for-comic-books.html
…you can see the average price of comics ordered from Diamond every month since 1996. We’ve gone up a dollar over the course of 12 years, or less than 50%. That, for comics, is slow price escalation — compared to some other periods, like the 1970s, when comic cover prices tripled over the course of the decade. It may be hard to believe that the average comic book ordered by retailers 10 years ago this month was already $2.57, but it’s true — and if we look back at the early 1990s, the market had been primed to accept prices at that level long before by the whole gimmick cover business. The best-selling Amazing Spider-Man issue ever, #375, had the same cover price as the Obama Spidey issue 16 years later: $3.95.
It’s important to note these unit sales were up in the aggregate — but that does not speak to individual titles. For most individual titles, the unit-sales track is generally downward, but then that’s close to a “normal state” for many times in comics’ history. Aggregate increases can occur when a rising tide raises all ships — like in the early 1990s — but they also result from publishers renewing and expanding their slates.
Comics unit sales were off dramatically in January 2009, even with the Obama Spider-Man, so it will be an interesting year to watch. The general economy did introduce price resistance in the 1970s, harming unit sales — but then, as now, the big factor will be the number of outlets carrying comics. Nothing I know of has a closer relationship with unit sales than the number of stores: Random unproven titles sold huge numbers in the 10,000-shop early 1990s, while even well-established titles suffered in the shop collapse of the late 1990s.
Thanks, John, what I’ve seen looks interesting and I’ll look at the rest of it (and be even more confused by the end of it) later.
Peter,
Haven’t found a way to leave you an e-mail, so here’s a comment completely unrelated to your post. Well, mostly unrelated.
The only reason I currently have X-Factor, Incredible Herc, Thor, Runaways, and about half of the other titles on my pull list at the local comic book shop is because I heard about them on the only independent, impartial comic community I’ve found, scans_daily. My pull list includes between fifty and sixty titles, so that’s a little over twenty-five directly attributable to the community.
Where am I going to hear about new books from an impartial source now?
Folks, VERY sorry about these multiple posts — the comments were not appearing, even when I cleared my cache. (Are they screened here? They all appeared to me at once.) Anyway, hopefully someone can knock ’em out.
First off, S_D was just one site, so it’s ridiculous to think it alone had a significant effect on comic sales. I DO think the Internet as a whole has had a significant impact on sales, simply through its power to “spread the word” and keep people involved and interested with their fellow comics fans. I myself had dropped out of comics for a number of years, and it was discovering Internet newsgroups discussing comics that got me interested again in late 2000 (I find it interesting that this coincides with the increase in sales since 2001; perhaps a lot of people were coming back at that time).
Other factors have to include; the advent of comic book movies, the explosion of trade paperbacks in bookstores, the return of the “Big Event” (and the accompanying need to “one-up” each one), an infusion of new talent, and a renewed focus on accessible, high-quality story and art at the Big Two.
It’s not all rosy (they need to be careful about too many “Big Events”, they need to keep in mind that even the best hype machine can’t turn crap into gold, and they need to keep focus on accessibility), but things have been moving generally in the right direction for the industry.
Yeah…thanks for taking the only decent comic sampling site, áššhølë.
Heres my two bits (or bytes) on scans
Anyone who defends scanning either has a large comic collection, of wants to portray that.
I think people believe that if they have 2000 comics and books that they can stop buying comics
and instead read them online or download then for free because “they have helped the industry enough”.
The reality?
Scans aren’t hurting the industry so much because only a small percentage of overall comic buyers can download comics.
But that percentage is growing and growing.
And if you go from reading your first comic in printed form and liking the feeling to reading it on a comic and liking
that feeling, you’re more likely to look for the comics on the computer.
And if you’re parents don’t have money for comics, you can’t beat free.
If 100 percent of comic buyers knew how to get comics for free online there were be no comic books industry at all.
And in my opinion, the author here did not shut down that site, stupidity did.
Honestly if this was a U2 tribute band not paying dues and then sending a link to their site to U2,
would there even be a discussion?
Conor.
Honestly, I myself have scans to thank for getting my comic collecting going again but Peter’s right. For every one person like me there’s 3 or 4 (who in this case I actually know) who download and don’t buy anything.
And for the record, I actually enjoy downloading scans of comics I own, so I can use art for im icons or desktop patterns.
Just let it go, man. Please. Nobody who isn’t with you on this issue is going to be with you; nobody who is with you is all that likely to turn against you. Stop stoking the fire. For the most part the s_d refugees are trying to move on. It happened, it’s done, move on. Let people feel how they’re going to feel. It feels like you’re trying to apologize and defend yourself so people will keep buying X-Factor, and I’m sure you don’t want it to be seen that way.
“Scans aren’t hurting the industry so much because only a small percentage of overall comic buyers can download comics.
But that percentage is growing and growing.
If 100 percent of comic buyers knew how to get comics for free online there were be no comic books industry at all.”
I simply don’t agree. There will always be people who prefer the physical books, and people who have enough scruples that they will not take the books for free. I can’t tell you what that percentage is, but I maintain it’s there.
Similarly, I believe that if there was a legal, reasonably priced version of digital comics from the publishers, they would succeed.
Some download because print comics are too expensive (right or wrong) but have gone on record that if a cheaper alternative arose, they would come back. Again, no idea what that number is, but it’s there.
One of the biggest arguments (specious or not) made by downloaders is that it’s not “fair” that the companies try to stop digital distribution, yet don’t present their solution. Well, presenting said solution would certainly throw a spanner in the argument.
I’ve pretty much stopped the debating of whether or not S-D was legal or fair usey enough. No one will be convinced to the other side. I’m back on my pulpit about how a digital distribution system could be good for the industry, and a strong move against the current downloads. More progress (and money) can be made by saying “Don’t do that, do this” than by saying “Don’t do that at all”.
Uh…guys? There’s two other whole threads that people can do drive by sniping or call me, y’know, whatever. The purpose of this was largely to be up front about the fact that I was wrong about overall comics sales, which I was. And to state that it would be impossible to make the case that Scans could be contributing to sliding sales if sales are not, in fact, declining.
So if you want to call me names, please confine it to the other two extensive dog pile threads already in existence.
PAD
Peter, Will there be a thread to discuss the new look for your site? I’d like to point out that a lot of people think your site is currently down, because their favorites link is the “malibulists” one, not the current one.
–Ed
I’d second a “New Site” thread as well. Beyond typical discussions about like/don’t like it you can get an idea of what may or may not be up with the problems of migrating to the new site. For instance I only got the new site because I left a window open on the old one, came back an hour later and refreshed it to find the new site. Once I left it was hëll (I had to go through Wiki) getting back (until I bookmarked it.)
Firefox Google or just plain Google “Peter David” and the old site link pops up. Click it and you get the Google page with a web address of http://75.126.28.154/
If I go through my MSN bookmark I get this.
________________________________________
Internal Server Error
The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
Please contact the server administrator, webmaster@peterdavid.malibulist.com and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache/1.3.41 Server at padwp.malibulist.com Port 80
_________________________________________
Hëll, I get that even if I actually type http://padwp.malibulist.com/ into the address bar on MSN. And these problems pop at on all my home computers and at the one in the break/briefing area at work.
There may be a lot regulars who think your site is down. How the hëll most of the drive by flamers are finding your site (other than maybe links from other flamers) is beyond me.
Peter,
There’s a post in your spam filter for you might want to look at. You likely know some of the problems with the site migration anyhow, but it might be worth having an updates thread for the reasons mentioned in the spammed post.
In truth, it’s something that’s impossible to prove either way. Scans_Daily had 9000 members, 8000 watchers and at any one time there was probably only, at very most 500-1000 active members, from my experience. (The new Noscans_daily discussion group has around 500 members, last time I checked, as well. Like many forums or communities, the bulk of the membership is most likely “dead”.) Anecdotal evidence suggests that the site DID prompt people to buy comics, but with the best will in the world, never enough to make a HUGE impact on comic sales, for bad or good, in my opinion. On lower selling titles championed by the community, you could argue 500 or a 1000 readers turned onto a title by people pushing it there could be significant, if not huge, though.
However, what should be factored into this discussion, and has been generally overlooked as far as I can see, is that a large number of the people discussing the latest releases from the big two on the site /already owned the comics, or intended to/. In any one thread discussing, say, X-Factor, a large number of people commenting on the issue would own it themselves, the same as any other discussion forum. The site was never intended to replace sales, but supplement them.
Also worth commenting on is that, if someone wanted to, they could attribute rising sales to rising net awareness. A lot more people are more comfortable on the net now than they were 8 years ago and someone could attribute increased sales to that, if they wanted, including Scans_Daily. The point is, you can use figures to “prove” practically anything or back up just about any claim.
Apart from general sales slides, apparently. You could, I guess, claim that X-Factor’s slide in sales was down to people posting sections from the book to S_D in the misguided desire to promote it, but it’d be kinda nonsensical.
As it is, personally I dropped the book already, nothing to do with spoilers or scans, but how distasteful I found the ending of 39 being pushed as ZOMG THE TWIST YOU NEVER SAW COMING!!! rather than being sensitively handled.
So, truth is, it’s impossible to say why sales on some books slide, or why some books sell through the roof while others languish, even with oodles of good press or word of mouth. There’s no rhyme or reason to it and trying to see patterns is the way to madness.
Following on from what I said, also take, for example, X-factor #39. It sold out. Now Peter might well say that it proves that if you can stop people talking about spoilers, the book will sell better because people are picking it up to find out for themselves what happens.
On the other hand, I could argue that the number of interviews Peter did asking people not to talk about the book and what happened therein and the fact that it was hyped as being a big issue proves that internet coverage of the book helps to boost sales as people were expecting something big. Therefor it was people talking about it online which persuaded retailers to add to their order for that issue.
Other people could even argue that news got out there was no Larry Stroman art in the book and sales jumped because of that.
The point being, you could look at those sales figures and claim it proves pretty much anything. That Scans_Daily boosted sales because they whetted people’s appetites by posting spoilers, that other sites did because they didn’t post spoilers, that people picked up the book becaue they heard the story was great, they picked it up because they thought the baby on the cover was cute – people could use sales figures to back up any of these points, but prove nothing.
So, you could argue that online piracy and scans sites are to blame for decreasing sales of individual titles, or claim that unit sales are up, therefor they get people talking about comics and they are good for sales.
At the end of the day, it’s hard to quantify or prove anything on either side of this debate.
All I know, personally, is I’ve read more comics than I would have done if I’d never known of Scans_Daily and it turned me onto more comics than it turned me off of, but mostly it was a good place to discuss books are was already reading.
I’ll let someone else argue about how those figures do or do not support my case.
“The point being, you could look at those sales figures and claim it proves pretty much anything.”
I’ve been saying that all along. There’s an S. Gross cartoon about five blind men and an elephant (and a Phil Foglio one about five blind men and an Ellison). The punchline is “An elephant is soft and mushy”.
Hadn’t ever heard of Scans Daily until a few days ago..
To be honest, I think Hollywood had quite a bit to do with the rise of the Comic. Great movies like Spider-Man, X-Men, and the Dark Knight have made it cool to be comic collector.
“It’s not all rosy (they need to be careful about too many “Big Events”, they need to keep in mind that even the best hype machine can’t turn crap into gold, and they need to keep focus on accessibility), but things have been moving generally in the right direction for the industry.”
I think it would be more accurate to ascribe that direction to two companies based on that quote. I won’t get into how much of that direction may be “right” or “wrong”.
The industry as a whole moves in various directions at once, arguably composed of industries within an industry at this point.
Manga seems to be the new mainstream in audience and numbers. Whenever I walk into a bookstore lately, there’s usually an entire wall of manga books that outnumbers the traditional trade and OGN section.
And webcomics seem to be more than a passing trend and some creators in that arena are making some serious money at it too.
That’s just a couple of trends that have emerged and taken over in the past decade.
“If 100 percent of comic buyers knew how to get comics for free online there were be no comic books industry at all”
well that’s entirely false. It’s impossible to really predict what the industry would be like, but there IS solid evidence proving that people WILL still buy physical copies of things, even if they know where to get digital copies for free online.
True enough. We’ve had web-comics make the transition to collected-in-print helping to keep the industry afloat in the last couple of years.
PAD-
Glad to see you noticed that.
Goota be honest, this whole multi-platform conversation has been a list of cliche’s. One side yelling “EVILPIRATES!/COPYRIGHT!/lostsales!” and the other yelling “FAIR USE!/freepublicity!/notthewholething!”
The site was pushing it (severely), but saying they were cutting into sales is, unless you are suggesting people seeing a work they won’t like and not buying it is the reason, at best misguided. At the same time, they did at best strain the definition of fair use to the breaking point.
As to fault, at this point it’s pretty clear what happened, so that is not an issue. Marvel had the sight taken down
At the same time, I believe you (PAD) when you say marvel told you they were already down, and am betting they were.
Do I blame you? No. Do I think you were the direct cause? No. Did your actions lead to the sites closure? Eh, not really the big issue for the most part as far as I’m concerned.
I will say, however, that I find it hard to believe you are actually suggesting the discovery of copyright infringement requires going strait to the copyright owner, and that immediate action is required if they weren’t asked before hand, given that you have spent a deal of time in Fan Fiction circles yourself, centers of blatant severe copyright violation, though i suppose your views on such things could have changed.
I suppose it could have more to do with it being posting of actual existing work as opposed to derivative, but that would lead me into a tangent for another day.
“If 100 percent of comic buyers knew how to get comics for free online there were be no comic books industry at all”
Three reasons that’s false:
1. We comic geeks are collectors, and most of us NEED to have the real thing. If it’s not in a mylar bag in a longbox in our basement, it’s not real, dammit.
2. I’ve observed that many if not most geeks will happily buy books/CDs/what-have-you because they want to support the artists and creators behind them. Granted that’s not always the case, and I have on idea if it’s the norm.
3. Reading a traditional comic on a computer screen is just not the same. It really isn’t.
And I’d be interested to see what chunk of these numbers are Manga. Manga’s caught on in a big way lately…my theory on this is because it’s simple to read, easy to mock (sarcasm and mockery are the religion of the new generation in the US, I’ve noticed,) and has bøøbš in it. Bøøbš are neat.
-=ShoEboX=-
An overall 15 million gain in sales over the past 7 years is a beautiful thing no matter how you look at it. That this is taking into account a 4 million drop in the past year is even more impressive.
I think one of the best things is that this refutes the “doom and gloom” types who are constantly talking negatively about the industry, how comics are fighting a “losing battle” to the internet, video games, etc. Imagine if so many creators, retailers and fans who pine for the good old days actually said, “You know what? Comics are more entertaining, better written and better drawn than they ever have been and they are worth every penny.
Instead, we still have people worrying about speculators, bìŧçhìņg about events, etc.
Lost in all this is that there have been a number of comics that have brought in new fans. From an event like the “Death of Captain America” to Stephen King adaptations, “Buffy” and Anita Blake, the latter two have brought new, rabid and mostly – gasp! – FEMALE readers into stores.
Another positive sign is the Obama Spider-Man issue. I brought my fiance into my LCS for the first time and she got the “Amazing” Obama issue for her son, the IDW Obama biographical comic for her mom and then decided to pick up Marvel’s “Oz” comic because she thought it looked cool. So, someone who had never bought a comic before (I buy some for her occasionally, but that’s what I THINK she’ll like) wound up buying three different comics for three different people and spending over $10.
Hey, if Obama can help comic sales, I don’t care how many covers he’s on. I love the industry that much.
One other thing:
People need to know where to go. We need more stores. The good indies will survive. But in order to fully take advantage of the continued mainstream interest in comics, we need a Borders-style chain that only deals with comics.
Someplace that will be by malls, schools, etc. and make it easier for grandparents, parents, teens, etc. to walk in and pick up some cool stuff