Just came back from the advance screening of “Ghost Rider.” Discussion with some minor spoilers below.
Long story short: Entertaining eye candy with some great action set pieces, nifty FX, decent acting from Nic Cage and a plot that doesn’t make a lick of sense.
Short story long: And by not a lick of sense, I mean tons of no sense. Internal rules that don’t remain consistent (Satanic beings can’t enter a cemetery because it’s consecrated…but they CAN enter a church?). The concept that, like Slayers, every generation has a Ghost Rider, except later we learn there’s been 150 years since the last one. Characters who appear and disappear for no reason. Elemental demons who conveniently attack Ghost Rider one at a time over three successive nights, thus allowing themselves to be dispatched without much trouble, rather than attacking him en masse.
But the film has a lot of energy, moves along briskly, and features a solidly tongue in cheek performance from Nic Cage (his halting explanation of his current status quo to his disbelieving girlfriend is a stitch.) It’s an hour and forty five minutes of entertainment, and–sadly–even with enough holes to drive a truck fleet through, the plot STILL makes more sense than “Superman Returns.”
PAD
• 
Thomas E (Any relation to Jonathan E?) – The IRON MAN animated film suffered from other problems. The Board members were made out to be idiots. Stark hands them BILLIONS in government contracts, yet they practically throw him out? How does a company stay in business with such fools running it? And IM is a technological character. He tends to fight technological bad guys. Yet, here, he’s up against mainly magical threats. Terrible fit. Same sort of problem with the first RESIDENT EVIL film where the zombies and high tech [the Red Queen AI] just don’t mix.
I wonder if they’ll make a movie of the Human Fly next. He was the wildest Super-Hero ever — because he’s real!
(To my great shame I actually have all of the Human Fly issues, a sad reminder of the days when I bought everything–everything–that Marvel published.
Just got back, and I enjoyed it; I’ve been reading the ‘Essential Ghost Rider’, and I thought they did a pretty good job shaking the various comics incarnations down to find the good stuff. It was, at times, a bit over-goofy, and not tons of sense (although I’ll defend the “elemental demons” bit. He sent them all at once the first time, and one died. He used the second one as cannon fodder to find out GR’s weaknesses, and then the third one couldn’t attack “en masse”, because he was the only one left.) But it was entertaining. “Why helicopters?” “My dad thought it would be cool.” “…he was right.”
The most unintentionally funny bit, though, was where Roxy is waiting in the restaurant…and with no explanation, pulls out a Magic 8-Ball, shakes it, looks into it, and then puts it away, never to be seen again. All we could think of was that she did that in a gag take, and it wound up in the finished film.
Oh, I in no way intended to imply that my curiosity about the Director’s Cut wasn’t piqued by the posts and links you and others made, Peter. I may just go and rent it at the next opportunity. 🙂
And Bill, thanks for pointing that out about Elektra’s abilties.
For my two cents, Ghost Rider gave me exactly what I was expecting. Of course, given that I was expecting at best a B-Movie, that’s maybe not saying much. To break it down…
What I liked:
-The tone was pretty consistent. Go in with tongue planted firmly in cheek and you’re probably gonna have a pretty good time. For that matter, Nic Cage’s performance is consistent with that as well. I can’t recall him mugging for the camera quite this much since… well, ever, actually. Along the same line, I’ve read a review or two that accuses the film of being unintentionally funny at times. I don’t agree with that; I don’t think it was unintentional at all.
-The effects (barring some of the earlier shots in the film) were pretty decent. They even occasionally bordered on the beautiful (the scene of the two Ghost Riders riding side by side just plain rocked, in my humble opinion.)
-The fact that they payed homage to the original Wild West Ghost Rider was really nice (even though he wasn’t actually a supernatural character in the comics.)
What I didn’t like:
-You really did have to turn your brain off at the door to really enjoy this movie. It didn’t make a ton of sense unless you’re willing to accept that all of the characters are morons. I’m not gonna list all of my nit pick because everyone above has pretty much nailed them all, but, like I said, if you can ignore the basic principles of good storytelling (and, evidentially, I’m able to do this :P), you’ll be able to enjoy the film.
-Eva Mendes can’t act her way out of a community college, and Nic Cage doesn’t do much better. One of the better actors in the film, Sam Elliot, is essentially wasted. He has maybe fifteen minutes of screentime, most of which is spent giving exposition, and then literally fades from the film without proper explanation.
-The (almost) ending speech given by Cage may have looked good typed out in a word balloon, but when it’s spoken by a human being, it just sounds bad. I mean, really bad. You’ll know it when you hear it.
To sum up, the film’s worth seeing in that guilty pleasure sort of way (especially if caught as a matinee.) You know it’s bad while you’re watching it, but, if you can let yourself run with it, you’re probably gonna have too good of a time to really care.
I was expecting the worst and was pleasantly suprised (I love it when I’m wrong about movies and wind up liking something I thought I’d hate via poor reviews). Very entertaining, cool FX, great Cage, goofy at times but not breaking “character” with the movie’s tone and subject matter.
Marc Bialek
No, Superman was stalking. Bryan Singer took Superman and turned him into a creepy deadbeat dad who will break into your house at night.
I might add that my wife LOVED the movie, though over dinner last night we managed to find a dozen plot points that made no sense (I wonder what the other people at Outback Steakhouse talked about).
One obvious one–Ghost Rider gets stabbed by some punk and the wound is still there later when he becomes Nic Cage again. BUT…later he is shot about 12,000 times by the cops and when he turns back into Cage he doesn’t immediately drop dead or, alternatively, drink a glass of water and have multiple streams of fluid leak out of his body like Yosemite Sam.
The (almost) ending speech given by Cage may have looked good typed out in a word balloon, but when it’s spoken by a human being, it just sounds bad. I mean, really bad. You’ll know it when you hear it.
You mean the Grapes of Wrath speech–“Wherever there is evil, I’ll be there. Wherever the innocent suffer, I’ll be there. Wherever an interior decorator has painted a room in an unflattering color, there too shall I be.” Yeah, that came off pretty goofy.
Also, not only do the bad guys use the 100 ninjas strategy-“We outnumber him 100 to 1–let’s all attack one at a time!” they are just not very good at it. It takes more time to read this post than it takes the Ghost Rider to defeat them. Bad enough that they look like the world’s oldest Hot Topic customers, they’re also about as effective as clam sauce.
But for all that I had a good time. Look, Ghost Rider has always been 3rd tier Marvel at best. ANY Ghost Rider movie has a low bar to jump over. They did fine by me. Maybe Dino De Laurentis was on to something when he told Stan Lee he wanted to buy the rights to Werewolf By Night. (As Stan tells the story, his conscience forced him to point out that Marvel did not exactly hold the copyright to the idea of a guy turning into a werewolf at night.)
I thought it was okay. It’s a guilty pleasure. I’m not a big fan of Cage, I think the only movies of his I’ve really liked were Raising Arizona and Adaptation (anyone catch the little reference to Raising Arizona in there? It cracked me up.). But I thought he did a good job. And Eva Mendes has got absolutely beautiful, um, eyes. Did she talk? I don’t remember.
My biggest problem was the dialogue. At times it was actually pretty funny and clever, but then other times it was absolutely horrendous. The villians in particular were pulling out every cliche in and out of the book.
My friend and I were pretty amused at what pushovers the elemental demons were, too. Though I guess it makes sense that he’d be able to take them out easily, given that it’s sort of what he was created to do.
“No, Superman was stalking. Bryan Singer took Superman and turned him into a creepy deadbeat dad who will break into your house at night.”
I found the basic idea of Superman Returns interesting, but was less happy with the execution. I had mixed feelings about the idea of Superman having a child. But the scenario of Superman returning to find he has a son and that the love of his life has moved on is very interesting, very contemporary. For him to react the way he did — stalking and all — seems natural, human, even for the great Superman.
Part of the problem of Superman Returns to me was that all of the characters, including Superman himself, seemed to lack some focus, some development, some depth. When I look back on X1-X2, I think there was a similar problem with many of the characters except Wolverine and Magneto. Except for these two, all the others seemed very intteresting in potential, but somehow underdeveloped and underused.
As I was thinking back on Superman Returns it made me wonder about the whole idea of superheroes having and bringing up chiildren, and I don’t mean the kind that magically turn into adults, or come from parallel timelines only to vanish later, or hypothetical future children. I mean real children, now, that you have to take care of. Should superheroes have children? Would superheroes taking care of children make good stories? Which Superheroes are more suitable to bring up children? I, for example, find it hard to imagine superman having a child, and have a feeling that stories involving such a child will be pretty bad. But the idea of Spiderman having a child seems as natural as Spiderman being married. I find it difficult to imagine Batman taking care of chiildren, even on the weekend. But I can imagine the green Lantern taking a child to soccer practice.
About Ghost Rider, I haven’t seen it yet. I think I’ll wait for the DVD. Reading people’s reviews here, it seems to me that having sufficiently low expectations and watching the movie in the comfort of your own sofa makes watching movies of this caliber more enjoyable. I enjoyed Daredevil and Fantastic Four, and to a lesser degree Constantine and the Hulk, under similar circumstances, despite obvious flaws.
The van is waiting for next Thursday (Kate’s payday) for a new radiator, i couldn’t drive myself if it was running (spent a night in jail last week over an expired driver’s license that my sister is going to deliver $50 to North Carolina to clear up for me)…, so i haven’t seen it, despite having originally pledged to be there opening day. Oh well.
However:
Posted by: Bill Mulligan at February 17, 2007 10:17 PM
I wonder if they’ll make a movie of the Human Fly next. He was the wildest Super-Hero ever — because he’s real!
(To my great shame I actually have all of the Human Fly issues, a sad reminder of the days when I bought everything–everything–that Marvel published.
Hey, I have every issue of the original Nova series. Except I make no apologies for it — I actually liked it. Still do. Wasn’t a bad book.
Posted by: Bill Mulligan at February 18, 2007 10:44 AM
(I wonder what the other people at Outback Steakhouse talked about).
“Say… isn’t that… Bill Mulligan?”
“My God, it is!”
“Do you really think he killed all those people?”
“Well, just look at him! What do YOU think?”
“Check, please!!!”
I wish they’d left when they saw us waiting at the door–would have saved me an hour of waiting while the scent of beef and garlic mashed potatoes made me salivate like Pavlov’s dogs.
“Let’s have our Valentine’s dinner on Saturday,” I said, “There won’t as much of a crowd.” I said. Obviously she didn’t marry me for the brains.
I saw “Ghost Rider” opening night and thoroughly enjoyed it, which thoroughly surprised me. Since Johnson was responible to some extent for the Terrible Two of “Daredevil” and “Elektra”, I admittedly did have low expectations. But the effects were cool, the story was decent, although the beginning felt especially rushed – I think it is one of those movies that would have benefitted from more time. I like that the effects were cool and not cheesy. I like that he defeated the villains convincingly. And I LIKED the melodramatic dialogue. I mean, it’s a MOVIE! I ESPECIALLY liked Eva mendes and her ever-more-revealing-cleavage per scene. I think I am truly in love:)
I am glad the movie had a successful opening weekend and am looking forward to a sequel, because this film was fun!
Ahh the joy of lowered expectations. I went into Ghost Rider hoping for the best and fearing the worst. It turned out to be somewhere in the middle. A good movie but not a great movie.
Let me state my opinion on some other recent films.
Spiderman: Overall I liked it. It had its cheesy moments like the scene on the bridge. But I could forgive that since it was not that long after 9/11.
Spiderman 2: The reason I’m not looking forward to Spiderman 3 even though the trailers look good. I couldn’t wait to see this movie and I went to a midnite showing cause I didn’t want to wait to see it. Man I wish I would have waited. I liked the first half of the movie. Then it went right in the toilet. It went beyond redemption when Spidey took off his mask and tried to stop the subway train. Everybody on the train sees who he is and says: “we won’t tell anybody Spiderman”. You expect me to believe nobody on that train would take a picture and send it to the Daily Bugle. Horrible movie.
The Hulk: I actually liked this movie. Even though one of the Hulk dogs was a poodle (ridiculous), they were a little excessive with the Hulk’s height after escaping the army, and they lacked a big Hulk supervillain. But overall I liked the story.
The Punisher: Needed to be a lot more violent. The Punisher isn’t the Count of Monte Cristo he doesn’t need to set up some elaborate scheme for revenge. What he does isn’t about revenge. Its about punishment. Point gun, aim, shoot very simple. Plus it needed to be much darker.
Dardevil: When I first saw it I didn’t hate it but I didn’t love it either. It seemed like it just started and then it ended. The more I thought about it the less I liked it. I didn’t think that the directors cut added anything that significantly improved the story. In the end it still sucked.
X-Men,X2,X3: I actually liked all of these movies. Although they might have had one storyline too many in X3. The story of the cure and Dark Phoenix could have been two separate movies. I could complain that Juggernaut’s not a mutant and shouldn’t lose his powers around the kid that drains mutant powers but that’s minor.
Superman Returns: I thought this movie was going somewhere and then it didn’t. Pretty sad when you set through a movie that’s over 2hours long and you’ve got to wait for a sequel just to see Superman throw a punch. But this movie could have been a lot worse than it was. All of the director changes before they decided on Singer. All of the script changes. Remember when Nicholas Cage was attached? Good actor but looks nothing like Superman should. Better than Spiderman 2 but not by much.
Fantastic Four: I went in with lowered expectations and this film exceeded them. Pointless changes to Doom aside I thought this movie was ok.
Well, I finally saw the other half of Ghost Rider today (after my first fire-alarm abbreviated attempt on Friday), and overall, I liked it. Yeah there were a couple of plot holes, but that’s par for the course for most action films from Hollywood these days. The special effects were great, the Ghost Rider looked cool, and Nick Cage did a decent job as a hero with a split personality.
I give it a thumbs up.
Luigi Novi,
loved all your points about why you thought “Daredevil” was a terrible movie. To me, the worst was the playground scene. But I knew we were in trouble when they changed the origin unnecessarily. Having Matt Murdock get his powers by pure accident took away from the nobility of the character. That, in the comic, he loses his sight trying to save a man immediately shows the character has the inner strength that would make him a hero. Even if they still decided to make him a murderer due to his “sense” of justice and Ben Affleck deciding that it was a ‘cool story arc” to see the character change his ways “because of the love he feels for this woman”, they should have left the origin alone
Bill Mulligan,
Have to disagree with your opinion or maybe your recollection. Elektra became popular very quickly in “Daredevil” because she was one of the most dangerous people on the planet – definitely among those without super-powers. She just exuded danger (and sexiness). By the time she faced Bullseye, she was the kingpin’s #1 assassin. It was that fact that drove Bullseye to want to kill her to show HE was #1. And, if you look back at that fight in #181, at the beginning she is totally kicking his ášš. Although he ultimately prevails, it is still one of the more brutal, emotional fights in comics history. Personally, I don’t think either character has been as interesting since. Which is a HUGE reason why I felt the fight, like almost everything else in “Daredevil”, was a letdown. In the comics, both were portrayed as deadly, almost forces-of-nature, and SKILLED. In the movie, Elektra..hits a few sandbags and dies. Bullseye came off more goofy than menacing.
Well, that’s my two cents anyway.
Luigi Novi,
loved all your points about why you thought “Daredevil” was a terrible movie. To me, the worst was the playground scene. But I knew we were in trouble when they changed the origin unnecessarily. Having Matt Murdock get his powers by pure accident took away from the nobility of the character. That, in the comic, he loses his sight trying to save a man immediately shows the character has the inner strength that would make him a hero. Even if they still decided to make him a murderer due to his “sense” of justice and Ben Affleck deciding that it was a ‘cool story arc” to see the character change his ways “because of the love he feels for this woman”, they should have left the origin alone
Bill Mulligan,
Have to disagree with your opinion or maybe your recollection. Elektra became popular very quickly in “Daredevil” because she was one of the most dangerous people on the planet – definitely among those without super-powers. She just exuded danger (and sexiness). By the time she faced Bullseye, she was the kingpin’s #1 assassin. It was that fact that drove Bullseye to want to kill her to show HE was #1. And, if you look back at that fight in #181, at the beginning she is totally kicking his ášš. Although he ultimately prevails, it is still one of the more brutal, emotional fights in comics history. Personally, I don’t think either character has been as interesting since. Which is a HUGE reason why I felt the fight, like almost everything else in “Daredevil”, was a letdown. In the comics, both were portrayed as deadly, almost forces-of-nature, and SKILLED. In the movie, Elektra..hits a few sandbags and dies. Bullseye came off more goofy than menacing.
Well, that’s my two cents anyway.
FIRE + SKELETON = FUN
*** out of *****
3 out of 5
Since all of the mainstream Marvel properties like X-Men, Spider-Man and Hulk have been snagged up, film studios are really reaching into the dregs of Marvel’s back catalogue of superheroes to make new films. Hence, Ghost Rider starring Nicholas Cage. As a bona-fide comic book geek, and even a card-carrying Marvel Zombie to boot, I really have no freakin clue about who or what Ghost Rider is. And, after viewing this film, I really still have no idea who he is. However, the movie is enjoyable in a campy way, the FX are good, and the actors seem to be having a good time of it. It helps a lot that the film recognizes how silly the whole thing is, so you can have fun. It is a movie about a flaming skeleton ridding a motorcycle, after all.
It doesn’t start out as flaming skeleton on motorcycle, though, because it takes a good, long while to get to that point. Ghost Rider definitely has pacing problems, the movie just shy of 2 hours and it’s a lonnnngggg just shy of 2 hours. Heck, you don’t even see the cool transformation from human to flaming skeleton until about 40 minutes into it. A lot of the before stuff feels like preamble the movie didn’t need, but it manages to somehow be watchable.
The film starts with Young Johnny Blaze (Matt Long), a member of the father/son daredevil motorcycle stunt team. When Young Blaze finds out that dear old dad is going to be dead by cancer soon, he enters into a deal with the Devil (played by a detectably evil Peter Fonda). In exchange for dad’s life, Blaze has to become the Ghost Rider, Satan’s bounty-hunter. Soon Blaze is all grown up as a weirdly, scenery-chewing Nicolas Cage.
Cage’s performance is totally unrestrained. Comparing this to other strange Nicolas Cage performances, this’ll rank up there as one of the weirder ones. The guy eats jellybeans out of a martini glass and listens to the Carpenters before his death-defying jumps. His ticks are intentionally quirky, but somehow not annoyingly so. When Cage first transforms into Ghost Rider, check out his insane laughing/ crying / screaming jag that he does. This is a performance without a roadmap, but still fun to watch.
The beautiful Eva Mendes is in the movie as a news reporter and Ghost Rider’s love interest. While her character is sadly underwritten, Mendes manages to wring out some sympathy and be a pretty likable comedic heroine due to an abundance of pouting. Any chick that understands her love periodically turns into a flaming skeleton on fire is definitely a keeper.
Ghost Rider’s job is to track down Blackheart (Wes Bentley, in a somewhat rote performance), an escaped demon. Blackheart has several baddies who assist him in his evil doings over the course of the film. These hench-demons are all based on elements like earth, water and wind. Despite the cool production design and the particularly nasty way that they are introduced, the demons unfortunately go out like punks after a short amount of sceentime. Ghost Rider defeats these evil spirits by either moving his chain around really, really fast, or, in one case, by simply just yelling at them.
What makes all these somewhat awkward plot turns acceptable is that the movie is definitely having some fun, and its infectious spirit eventually rubs off on the audience. Probably the coolest and most enjoyable moment comes from when Ghost Rider first makes his escape and the cops start chasing him down. So Ghost Rider, being the X-treme spirit of vengeance he is, flips them off and then drives his motorcycle straight up the side of a building. When Ghost Rider ends up on a rooftop and a police helicopter ends up beside him, Ghost Rider throws his chain around the helicopter, pulls it up close to his flaming skull, and then growls “Stop. Pìššìņg. Me. Off.” Shades of Batman Begins permeate the cops-chasing-the-good-guy scene, but its passable because Rider isn’t the most original movie ever.
Speaking of “not all that original” there are numerous moments in here that I could sense were ripped out of Terminator 2: Judgment Day. The aforementioned helicopter scene is like the “Get Out” scene with the T-1000. When Ghost Rider steals a piece of leather clothing from an antagonist that scene is also a similar to a moment from the beginning of Terminator. There’s even the T-1000 style “finger wagging” joke after the monster gets beat up, and even a climatic sequence where the bad guy gets blown away with a shotgun and slowly reforms! Yes, it sounds like I’m harping, I know, but if you know Terminator 2, as evidently writer/ director Mark Steven Johnson does, you can see the same scenes ripped off.
But even with the taint of been there, done that, Ghost Rider manages to elevate itself into something more. Not much more, sure, but it comes together in a zany, wacky way. It shouldn’t work, and as a drama it really doesn’t work, but as a strange, cheeseball action movie, it does. If you want to see a flick about a skeleton on fire that rides a motorcycle, and you walk into Ghost Rider, you’re gonna get what you want. If that sounds appealing to you, then see this movie.
Oh God, another 10 cents worth, which probably means I’m overcharging you…
Bill Mulligan: your points about Elektra are valid, but it would have been dámņ near impossible to show her back story and ‘real’ skills in a 100 minute movie that’s supposed to be about Daredevil. I think we all need to remember that the audience for these posts have a background knowledge of the comics that the other movie goers probably just don’t have and that is screwing with our expectations. The movies need a ‘bums-on-seats’ figure up in the millions and these days it’s a rare comic that shifts 100,000 issues a month, so big companies will very, very rarely cater for the pure comics audience.
BTW, one of the things I did like about DD, and also about Hellboy, was that they didn’t spend the whole movie doing ‘The Origin’. Just “here’s the origin, here’s a fast forward to the current state of play, here’s our story”. For my money (I have change from 10 cents?) Fantastic Four and Hulk would have both been much better taking a similar aproach. Though the first Spider-man movie was fine with the approach that took.
Cheers.
Ghost Rider had many fun moments, but with so many glaring moments of bad acting and horrific dialogue, I walked away with memories of some cool images, my curiosity satisfied and not much more. Has Peter Fonda’s acting actually gotten worse? 😉
My brother made the best comment, though, when referring to the guy from Jack and Bobby:
“Man I would be insulted if they said I was going to be Nicholas Cage when I got older”
The other day I asked my mom if she wanted to go see the Ghost Rider movie. “The reviews say that if you want to see a good B-movie, it’ll be right up your alley.” I then asked her “What if I want to see a Ghost Rider movie?”, to which she said, “Then you may be disappointed.”
While we’re on the subject of superhero movie plot holes I’d like to bring up what I find to be the largest plot hole in recent memory. This can be found in X-Men 3:The Last Stand. For folks who read the X-Men comics we know that the Phoenix Force is more than just a mutant power. It is something of truly cosmic proportions. In the film neither of these points are carried through. Yes, Jean as The Phoenix is dangerous, but not on a cosmic scale. Here she may almost be as dangerous as Xavier in Cerebro II from X-2, but probably not (without hooking her up to a Cerebro, at least). The Phoenix power is just a very strong form of mutant telepathy and telekinesis. Now consider the main thrust of the film, it’s inciting circumstance: there is a mutant cure. My gripe is that not for one second did Wolverine or anyone else even consider possibly injecting Jean with the Cure. If he managed to run her through with his claws he could have found a way to stick her with a needle.
I’m disappointed that Wolvie felt he only had one option available to him. He was at Cure Central, fer cryin’ out loud! This is a real failure of creative problem solving on his part. There was also potential for an awesome, scope-widening reveal here. Wolverine sticks her with the cure but it doesn’t work, confirming a dark fear of Xavier’s: Jean isn’t a mutant. This could have set up the Dark Phoenix saga for part four, if it ever got that far.
Some may say that it was deeply emotional and dramatic to have Wolverine choose to perpetrate an assisted suicide. Since the social message completely fell by the wayside in the third film I would feel bad weakening the obvious pro assisted suicide message, but I didn’t feel any tension or drama because there was no other choice involved. If the only option you give a killer is to kill, what do you expect him to do? Not kill, resulting in everyone else that he cares for be killed?
So, yeah, X-Men 3 left me less than impressed. I’m sure Ghost Rider will be a more enjoyable experience.
One quibble, I think the 150 years was how long it had been since a GR had defied Mephisto.
I bought the Iron Man dvd but have not watched it yet. I wasn’t expecting anything but good graphics. Yes, a live-action Iron Man is coming but I know nothing about the director. But the IMDB page doesn’t inspire confidence: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0371746/ Robert Downey Jr. as Tony Stark. I just don’t know…
Fred Chamberlain,
“With so many glaring of bad acting and horrific dialogue”
Please cite. I mean, “horrific”? If you really want to get technical about it, it was a movie based on a horror character, so that might actually be a compliment.
In all seriousness, though, what jumped out at you as being so “bad” and “horrific” acting/dialogue-wise.
“my curiousity satisfied and not much more”
What were you looking to satisfy?
“Has Peter Fonda’s acting actually gotten worse:)”
I don’t generally defend people with the surname Fonda, but again, why do you feel this way? I thought he did fine
Not to nitpick your post, but yours was the most recent one that could be interpreted as bashing and I just can’t see why. I could have stood for a more horror-centric film, but I just don’t see the need to belittle people’s efforts. Yes, it is your opinion. You’re entitled to it. But mine is that I go see a movie like “Ghost Rider” to be entertained. It succeeded for me in that regard. I thought Cage and mendes were game, and fun, leads. I thought the plot/script/direction could have all ben improved. But i thought the cast, for the most part, did quite well with what they had to work with.
“I then asked her “What if I want to see a Ghost Rider movie?”, to which she said, “Then you may be disappointed.”
What exactly would make a “Ghost Rider” movie? I mean, it’s freakin’ Ghost Rider….he’s a demoniacally possessed stunt bike rider. There’s not much more to him.
It’s not like Frank Miller wrote an industry changing story about him.
I saw it…It was entertaining. Yes, plot discrepancies (I’m pretty sure the fight with the water angel fight at the end was because they forgot about him and needed him dead before the end.)But entertaining.
Also, I figure Peter Fonda was cast more cuz it’s a bike movie than because of his acting credentials.
I saw Ghost Rider on Saturday afternoon. I noticed a lot of young children under 10 seeing this movie with their parents. I was really enjoying the movie and suspending my disbelief. *Spoiler notice here* When the police find the licence plate of motorcycle belonging to Johhny Blaze who is a famous celebrity by the way. Do they ask him to come down to the police station to answer questions? No! they surround the guy and draw their weapons! Huh? What do they do? Question him then throw him into lockup? The guy has no crimminal record and they toss him with some bad folks? I was so angry from that point on, I didnt give a care about the movie.It lost me and never got me back.
Hey, it was Texas. He’s lucky he didn’t get the chair.
But yeah, I thought the same thing. They said something to the effect of “These murders began when you got here!” which might be logical if we were talking about Mayberry but I’m pretty sure lots of folks enter Texas each and every day. If Barbara Steisand holds a concert in New York City and some people get killed that same day I don’t think they would throw Babs in the slammer, though the thought does amuse.
Fred Chamberlain,
“With so many glaring of bad acting and horrific dialogue”
>Please cite. I mean, “horrific”? If you really want to get technical about it, it was a movie based on a horror character, so that might actually be a compliment.
In all seriousness, though, what jumped out at you as being so “bad” and “horrific” acting/dialogue-wise.
I always expect a bit of a nudge and a wink when I see Sam Elliot on screen, but he seemed almost a parody of himself from the opening narration on. I mentioned Fonda already and will get back to him in a moment, but there were several scenes that the dialogue seemed clumsy and amateurish to me. The final confrontation between Mephisto and Ghost Rider was offputting to me to the point of pulling out of the story. Not sure if it was just the script or some bad editing on top of it, because even the timing between the two as they spoke stood out to me.
“my curiousity satisfied and not much more”
What were you looking to satisfy?
My curiosity was satisfied. I hadn’t even planned on seeing it and was going to wait to rent the dvd, but was invited by the guys. Like I said in my opening statement in the post, I found it to be a fun film and no doubt would have enjoyed it much more if I were a part of its target audience. The most important factor for me when watching a film is to feel somewhat invested in the characters, whether I’m invested in them because I like them, feel for them in either a positive or a negative way. This was lacking for me in this film, so I left thinking that it was fun, but not satisfied by it.
“Has Peter Fonda’s acting actually gotten worse:)”
I don’t generally defend people with the surname Fonda, but again, why do you feel this way? I thought he did fine
It seemed to me that his timing was off and, for the most part, his lines sounded like they were being read with no commitment behind the words. To be fair, I had made the statement with a little wink smiley guy thingy and he was not the only actor in the film that turned in a lackluster performance, though his was the most glaring to me. (I did find myself half hoping that he would use his powers to summon the Captain America bike in the film>)
>Not to nitpick your post, but yours was the most recent one that could be interpreted as bashing and I just can’t see why.
I didn’t feel nitpicked, though my intention wasn’t to bash and I actually began my post with a positive point.
>I could have stood for a more horror-centric film, but I just don’t see the need to belittle people’s efforts.
I was providing feedback on the film as were others in the thread. I was not belittling their efforts, since I have no idea how much effort that they put into it.
>Yes, it is your opinion. You’re entitled to it. But mine is that I go see a movie like “Ghost Rider” to be entertained.
That is your motivation in going, not your opinion on the film. That was my motivation in going as well.
>It succeeded for me in that regard. I thought Cage and mendes were game, and fun, leads.
Cage was fine, though Mendes came off as pretty hallow to me.
>I thought the plot/script/direction could have all ben improved. But i thought the cast, for the most part, did quite well with what they had to work with.
ugh…. “hallow” should be hollow”, though looking at her may lead one to believe the former..
I thoght Mendes was fine – not to mention she is now officially a New Goddess in my eyes – but, hey, to each his own.
I thought Mendes was terrible in her first scene but got better as the film went on–the “dinner date” scene was quite amusing.
I rather enjoyed Fonda’s take on the Devil. Certainly it was way better than his son, Gothy McEmoboy and his stooges.
Maybe a Blade/Ghost Rider team-up for the sequel?
Bill,
I do agree with you that her acting got better as the movie progressed. Did you also notice that in each scene it seemed like she was showing a bit more cleavage than the last? Could there be a connection? Because if there is, then there is one sure way to make sure she puts in and Oscar-worthy performance next time:)
Posted by hellbunny
*Spoiler notice here* When the police find the licence plate of motorcycle belonging to Johhny Blaze who is a famous celebrity by the way. Do they ask him to come down to the police station to answer questions? No! they surround the guy and draw their weapons! Huh? What do they do? Question him then throw him into lockup? The guy has no crimminal record and they toss him with some bad folks? I was so angry from that point on, I didnt give a care about the movie.It lost me and never got me back.
I spent almost twenty-four hours in the Hall County Jail a week ago Monday because i had an expired driver’s licens.
I know for a fact that some of the guys in the dorm i was in were there for child-molesting, assault, theft of various flavours and general mayhem.
(And when they asked me what i was there for, and i said “Driving without a license”, they all moved away from me on the Group W bench. But when i said “…and drivin’ without a seat belt.”, they all came back and…)
Let’s just say that it sounds as if the cops have more reason to be suspicious of Blaze than they did of me… (I should get my license back this week and then i can go see the movie, after we get the van fixed…)
Posted by Jerome Maida
Bill,
I do agree with you that her acting got better as the movie progressed.
Watch the original Time Machine – it’s Yvette Mimieux’s first film (in fact, she was not of legal age to work the full shooting schedule that she did when the film began. She got better and better during the shooting, and they would up going back and re-shooting some of her earliest scenes because she was so much better. (Remember that films are shot out of order so that you won’t see a smooth progression of improvement, but it’s there.
Same with Uma Thurman (to a lesser extent, and they didn’t do much if any reshooting) on The Adventures of Baron Munchausen – she was 17. (According the IMDB trivia database, there was a betting pool on the set as to who was going to hustle her off to bed first).
And Betty (“Lauren”) Bacall got so much better over the course of her second film with Bogart – The Big Sleep – that they essentially remade the whole film before releasing it.
(According the IMDB trivia database, there was a betting pool on the set as to who was going to hustle her off to bed first).
So, did nayone win the bet? (And please don’t say Oliver Reed.)
“(According the IMDB trivia database, there was a betting pool on the set as to who was going to hustle her off to bed first).
So, did nayone win the bet? (And please don’t say Oliver Reed.)”
I don’t believe anyone did, no, although Reed was definitely in the hunt. I know the source of that bit of trivia, actually: It’s from the brilliant book about the filming of “Munchausen” entitled “Losing the Light.” Gilliam did, however, take props for getting her naked. It was during the scene when she makes her entrance as Venus on the Half Shell and Gilliam said, “I finally got you naked, Uma.”
PAD
And a grateful world thanks him still.
I appreciate the tip on the book, PAD, Munchausen is one of those movies I loved when it came out and I was amazed to find so few people shared the feeling (the all time puzzler though was Blade Runner. I walked out of that one thinking I’d just seen the future of science fiction films and before I could say a word every single one of my friends agreed that it sucked beyond the boundaries of suckage. Ðámņ near broke my heart, it did.)
Bill,
“And a grateful world thanks him still”
Indeed. Oh, and have you herad that Cage is reportedly picthing a “She-Hulk” movie to star Mendes? So far, reaction to the idea has been positive. Yeah, a bunch of fanboys are in favor of a role that would have Mendes in green body paint and either a bikini or a ripped blouse throughout the film.
Go figure.
Nic Cage=Marketing Genius
Bill,
Oh, yeah! heavens, I hope that comes together. Wait, that didn’t sound right. Oh, never mind:)
Okay, i finally saw it.
Much of what people have pointed out in here is at least partly true.
I Don’t Care.
It passes the duck test.
It looks like a Ghost Rider comic.
And it rides like a Ghost Rider comic.
And it talks like a Ghost Rider comic.
I am a bit annoyed that they de-ironised Blaze’s death; “Well, I promised you he wouldn’t die of cancer” is much more devilish a response than, basically, “Oh, I just sort of felt like it.” (of course, it was Crash Simpson’s death in the comic, but what the hey; you have to let the writer/director pee in the soup a little so that he likes the flavour better…)
Yeah, some of the dialog got a little, dare i say it, comic-bookish.
Ooo how terrible – a film adapting a comic book talked like a comic book!
And, let’s face it, the “long ride” shot was almost good enough by itself to offset 90% of anything else negative that was going on.
Actually, the thing in that theatre that really got me stewing over Something Bad done in a comic adaptation wasn’t Ghost Rider – it was the Big Reveal in the first line or two of dialog in the Spider-Man 3 trailer.
Almost as bad as what Andrew Vachss did to Batman’s origin when they let him write a book about the Batman…
Oh, and one thing – Roxanne “puts Johnny in his place” by saying “…you’re just a carny.”
Most of the real carnys i’ve known would probably feel complimented to be told they weren’t marks…
(One of Barry Longyear’s novels about the circus world of Baraboo, which was settled by the survivors of a crashed circus ship, ends with the rediscovery of Baraboo, a couple hundred or so years later. An officer from the ship is brought to the High Priest, a long-lived alien known as Warts, the sole surviving member of the original show. [On Baraboo, priests keep the Route Book – the official history.]
(When the officer leaves, Warts hauls a battered deck of cards out and begins practicing dealing three-card on his desk, humming to himself.
(A junior priest says, “You understand, Great Warts, that i heve never seen one in my life. But was that a…?”
(“Yes, my son – that was a mark.”)
From what I understood the elemental evil spirits couldn’t enter churches or consecrated ground but Blackheart was able to break those rules.
There is one scene where the priest? tells him, “you can’t be here” and Blackheart says, “that’s what everyone’s been telling me”. I took that to mean he’s been breaking a lot of rules.
And as for the 150 years, every generation did have one, but after the last one betrayed him, he wasn’t too keen on getting another one until he ran into Blaze.
I don’t think they were plotholes at all. The only thing I don’t understand is why Ghost Rider became such a goof–trying to crack one liners and saying things like, “you’re pìššìņg me off”. It just didn’t work. They should have made him either silent and bad-ášš, or came up with something better then what he was spouting.
That along with the corny driving up buildings and growing spikes and all the other on the spot weird happenings ruined it for me. Awful.
And Carter’s last ride just to hand him a gun and fade away was just pointless.
Well I enjoyed Ghost Rider, it was indeed a big montage and definantely had a video game feel but for all that you could see alot of fan based stuff in the backround and I think the folks who made it were doing the best to put alot of contradictory material together. I’ve been a fan of the books for years and I think they can do more with it if they do a sequal. My biggest complaint was the diabolically shite version of Ghost Riders in the sky done by some pathetic techno whiny boy band. They should have left well enough alone and kept it instrumental or gone with the Outlaws version. Also while I liked Eva Mendez I think her breats should have recieved their own billing considering the prominance they recieved in the film. That said I would nominate them for at least a best supported actress role. As for Nic Cage I think it was a decent performance considering some of the other things he’s done. I still think of him in Raising Arizona so anything he’s made since colors that. All in all I enjoyed it plotholes and all.
Now that the dust has settled a bit it’s safe to say that GHOST RIDER is a hit. It is about to become the first movie of 2007 to pass the 100 million dollar mark.
What’s even more encouraging for comics fans is that it appears that 300 will be the second movie to do so, and possibly with a record MArch opening box office to boot. 300 may make back it’s cost in 3 days!
Why does this fill me with glee, other than the fact that I really loved the movie? Because director Zack Snyder is trying to get an R rated WATCHMEN movie going as his next project and the success of 300 will grease the skids for that very nicely.had 300 tanked I think they would have killed WATCHMEN but now they will be falling all over themselves to see it through. Happy days indeed.
With FF2 and especially Spidey 3 almost guaranteed to make money this should be an excellent year for comics to film projects.