So we tuned into the William Shatner roast on Comedy Central last night, except--although I didn't keep a running tally--it sure felt like there were more jokes about George Takei than there were about Shatner. Comedians--and I use the term extremely loosely--simply couldn't get enough of making jokes about George's having come out. Even George's entire speech was about the subject. I give it four HSGs, which is the number of times I said, "Holy shit, George!" throughout the course of it. At least George carried it off with gentlemanly archness that provided amusing contrast to what he was saying. But...geez. An hour of jokes about George's genitalia?
I was just--I dunno. It's just that I'm old enough to remember the Friars Club roasts. And maybe they were watered down for TV and there were all kinds of dirty bits that got edited out, but the lacerations in those days were filled with wit and style and didn't require endless expletives that had to get bleeped out. I don't give a damn about profanity if it's funny. It's when it's used as a substitute for humor--when people laugh in shock or discomfort at word choice rather than because it's funny. Umpteen comments about George Takei shoving his bleep up someone's bleep...that's the state of American humor? Ironically it was Shatner who mostly got just the right mix in his closing comments, wryly commenting to George, "The people here certainly tore you a new asshole," waiting a beat, then dropping his voice to a gravely mumble and adding, "But I'm sure you'll find a use for it" before losing the high ground by making loud bleeped comments about oral gratification.
It just says something to me that most comedians anyone would have heard of--people who might have raised the level of the humor--didn't come within ten miles of the event. And so the humor level was instead dragged down. There were a lot of genuinely funny comments, but Shatner's semi-bewildered "Who the hell ARE you people?" in his closing really underscored the problem and the C-Level of comedians who were in attendance. Ironically, Andy Dick--whom I usually can't stand--was actually funny in his incarnation as a devoted fan nerd, and there was one guy who talked about George's revelation without being foulmouthed: The one who asked George if, when he came out of the closet, the door made that "shwip shwip" air noise of Enterprise doors (it was funnier in the telling than the retelling). Mostly, though, it was unimaginative easy shots.
We had a Stan Lee roast at a Chicago Comicon years ago. I was the toastmaster. Not a single profanity was uttered and the audience laughed itself silly.
Whatever happened to style?
PAD
Posted by Peter David at August 21, 2006 07:21 AM | TrackBack | Other blogs commentingAll in all, I did find it funny. These comedy Central roasts, though, just can't hold a candle to the Friar's Club roasts (and yes, I'm just old enough to remember a couple :-).
First off, who are these so-called comedians they get for each roast. Most of their careers seem to be built entirely on the CS Roasts (Andy Dick? Laura Lampinelli?). I tuned in more to see the real stars make comments (although Farrah Fawcett's were incorherent, as usual).
One final comment; one of the comedians made a joke that George came out of the closet 30 years after the end of Star Trek (and his career ^_^). I've wondered why he didn't make that choice earlier. There are minorities of all stripes in geekdom, and many of them feel just a little bit empowered by seeing their 'own face' in the type of media they love. If george had come out sooner, he would have been an even better role model to gay/lesbian youths who also happen to be geeks (no help for the stigma they have to carry for geing geeks, though :-).
Haven't seen the roast yet, but all the comments about George's sexuality were obviously inspired by the fact that he's a now the semi-regular announcer for Howard Stern and is more than willing to be the butt (sorry) of gay jokes.
My perception was somewhat similar, Peter. While watching the show, what I noticed wasn’t so much that there was a preponderance of jokes about Takei, as that the jokes at Shatner’s expense were allusions to him and Takei being an item. Nothing wrong with that, but roast humor always works best, I’ve observed, when the humorist emphasizes things for which the subject actually is known, or at least perceived to be known for. Overall, the comedy was spotty. The Pamela Anderson roast was way funnier. The first four presenters at her roast were all hilarious. The ones at Shatner’s have been good to mediocre. The exceptions were Jeffrey Ross, and Patton Oswalt (the one you mentioned having done the joke about the sound of Takei coming out of the closet). Some other thoughts:
I was actually surprised at how funny Betty White was. I don't really know how it works with regard to actors at roasts; do they write their own material, or hire writers to come up with it? I don't understand why someone like Jason Alexander, for example, was the roast master, when his stuff was merely okay, compared to Jimmy Kimmel, who, as Pamela Anderson's roast master, had really funny stuff to say at the top of the show. Whether White is actually a talented comedy writer in her own right, or hired a writer, I'm pleasantly surprised by how well she pulled off her presentation, especially since I had never associated her with the type of salty material she had last night.
Man, Sandra Bullock looked HOT in her segment!
Farrah Fawcett's segment was just sad.
Surprised at Takei’s appearance at the roast, I just read last night on Wikipedia that he mended fences with Shatner, as did James Doohan before his death. I'm happy to hear that. Takei's stuff was okay. Again, the repeated allusions to him and Shatner having had an affair were a bit difficult to relate to, but it was okay. I thought his inflections and speech patterns seemed a bit forced, though.
I was a little surprised and sadded by how many of the "jokes" told by the no-name comedians amounted to nothing but name-calling: i.e. phrases like "that wrinkled old gasbag Betty White," "that wrinkled old skank Farrah Fawcett." Not those phrases exactly, as none were memorable, but really: those were the jokes. Like just SAYING these breathtakingly rude things was in and of itself funny, without saying them in any clever manner. I was crying out for a Don Rickles or somebody on the order of the late Rodney Dangerfield -- now THOSE guys could have roasted Shatner in a profane manner and been funny.
And, by the way: somebody oughta tell a couple of those round-shouldered, thick-necked, big-bellied young male comedians in their twenties and thirties that making fun of William Shatner or Carrie Fisher for gaining weight since their youth immediately raises questions about their own carbohydrate intake. I mean, seriously. Shatner at their age was able to play a persuasive action hero. You wanna tell a big fat pig joke, you tell it from a position of physical superiority. Don't you?
One major lost opportunity: Chris Elliot, who can perform Shatner's version of "Rocket Man" note by note. It is to die.
Just for the record: the guy who made the Takei joke that you liked, PAD (the one about the closet door) was Patton Oswalt, who is as much of a geek as he made himself out to be, and even has some comics credits. He had a JLA one-shot published a couple of years ago and had a Punisher story that was excised from "Wha- Huh?" (In fact, it's rumored that the story was the reason the book was delayed -- it's a very funny parody of the old Hostess Fruit Pies ads; a Google search should turn it up.)
I liked the special over all. It was more than a little blue, and there were a lot of no-names with no real connections to Shatner. Might have been fun to have given the Trek people that they kept showing in the audience (Brent Spiner, Jeri Ryan and Rene Auberjonois -- who also co-stars with Shatner on "Boston Legal") a shot at the dais, to say nothing of Adrian Zmed. Seeing folks who actually KNOW the roastee take a shot is always funnier than just making the obvious jokes that a lot of those guys made. But I still had fun with it.
Luigi:
>Surprised at Takei’s appearance at the roast, I just read last night on Wikipedia that he mended fences with Shatner, as did James Doohan before his death. I'm happy to hear that. Takei's stuff was okay. Again, the repeated allusions to him and Shatner having had an affair were a bit difficult to relate to, but it was okay. I thought his inflections and speech patterns seemed a bit forced, though.
I imagine that I would have found it so too, but George's speech patterns are very unique. Had I not heard him speak on many occassions on Howard Stern's show, I'd not know that this is honestly the way that he talks. :)
I did wonder throughout the show how George was feeling about Shatner and being there since their non-relationship and his disdain for Shatner has been very public. His material seemed extremely pointed as well.
Two thoughts I had watching the roast:
Nichelle Nichols is doing quite well at the "aging gracefully" thing. Unlike Farrah Fawcett, who obviously was trying to look like she's still a sex symbol, Nichelle dressed glamorously. And what was Farrah doing there anyway -- does she have any connection to Shatner?
Andy Dick licking the women went from weird to annoying to repulsive to "for God's sake, get him out out of there!" It was particularly bad when he went up to Nichelle Nichols, and she made it clear she wanted nothing to do with him.
Annoyingly, my DVR didn't get the entire show. The Comcast listings had it running an hour and a half. It ended during Laura Lampanelli's routine, so I missed Shatner's speech. Foo.
I agree that Shatner's responses was funnier than most of "comedians." And I also wish people who actually have a connection to Shatner would have been on the dias. I have to wonder why, if Nimoy agreed to tape the bit that he did, he wouldn't have just come on the show.
I was glad to see Nichelle Nichols there. I know she and Shatner have not always been on good terms. I wish that her segment hadn't been truncated.
Andy Dick is not only annoying, his act is sad and pathetic.
Farrah Fawcett has no connection to anything Shanter has been involved in that I can think of, so I can only presume she there for the work, which she clearly in not qualified for.
Another person with no connection was Ben Stiller. And his taped segment bothered me. After he said that Shatner had ridiculed him for sending him a fan letter when he was kid, (just not funny), Stiller implied that he had been molested by George Takei, unnecessarily blurring the distinction between homosexuality and pedophilia. And of course there were shots of Takei laughing along, "He called me a child molester! Isn't that funny!?" How desperate for attention do you to be to let someone imply that you're a child molester?
And all those cut away shots of people laughing hysterically seem like they were culled from some other show, because no one on the dias was that funny.
George
I have to wonder if those of us, like myself, who remember the old Frair's roasts as being so funny would be disappointed upon seeing them again. I know that watching some old copies of the Dean Martin Roasts was a painful experience (though Red Buttons and Foster Brooks never fail to crack me up.
The Comedy Central Roasts are deliberately shock-jock fests so they might as well be evaluated that way. My wife and I had enough mouth dropping moments to make it worth our time, though I agree that the classic style comics could have made a lot more out of Shatner than the shiockers did. Shatner isn't really as good a target for them as I initially thought; he makes fun of himself and has actually made a career of gentle self mockery.
I hope everyone Andy Dick licked got their shots.
I also wouldn't go way out of my way to get the uneditted version--my experience is thatthe best stuff gets on TV. The folks who has their presentations chpped up into little soundbites probably had some very long stretches of dead material.
This came on right after we watched LAKE PLACID (part of AMC's "Stay out f the water" marathon). She's pretty profane in that one too and it's funny as hell hearing such language coming from that sweet little old lady. Is that how they all speak in St. Olaf?
"I have to wonder why, if Nimoy agreed to tape the bit that he did, he wouldn't have just come on the show."
My guess? Because anyone who showed up was a target, and if he didn't show, he didn't have to endure shots. There were a couple of swipes at him, yes, but nowhere near the number as at George and Nichelle.
"Another person with no connection was Ben Stiller. And his taped segment bothered me. After he said that Shatner had ridiculed him for sending him a fan letter when he was kid, (just not funny), Stiller implied that he had been molested by George Takei, unnecessarily blurring the distinction between homosexuality and pedophilia. And of course there were shots of Takei laughing along, "He called me a child molester! Isn't that funny!?" How desperate for attention do you to be to let someone imply that you're a child molester?"
Actually, I was watching very carefully during that sequence. And when they cut to George, he sure as hell didn't look like he was laughing at the child molestor jokes at all. I thought Stiller was painfully unfunny, a rare misfire, and was glad he wasn't actually there.
PAD
You very much captured my feelings about the whole Comedy Central roast experience.
Somewhere along the line, it appears the differences between comedy and profanity got blurred or perhaps one got mistaken for the other.
I caught a bit of the roast flipping channels, saw Takie’s big sendoff of Shatner at the end of his bit (which was funny only given the context of the history between the two men) and saw the bits by Artie Lang (horrible) and the guy who preceded him (who I don’t know from Adam but who was reasonably funny).
Nothing about anything I saw made me want to keep the channel locked onto Comedy Central but fortunately since the roast is on Comedy Central we all know it will be rebroadcast umpteen billion times between now and the next time CC does a roast.
I remember those Dean Martin roasts with a certain amount of fondness. I don’t think of them as nonstop laugh riots but, I do remember them for the wide variety of guests from different walks of life that they would bring together on the dais.
Maybe the roast thing on CC is just a reflection of the dearth of great standup comics out there. Then again, Comedy Central isn’t springing for people like Seinfeld, Bernie Mac, Dave Chapelle or even Carlos Mencia.
Oh, and who wrote Sandra Bullocks bit? Could she be more unfunny?
My wife, Maria, and I watched the Shatner roast last night too, and our desire to do so was quickly diminished as it became obvious that the language was missing the wit of many other comedians, stars, etc., that should have been there instead of many of the third-rate people that were (Farah?).
Thankfully, the Who Wants To Be A Superhero repeat was airing at 11, as I missed seeing it Thursday night, I turned off the rest of the sinking Shatner ship, and enjoyed the Stan Lee show instead.
Actually-
About the comment on why Takei didnt 'come out' earlier and be a role model for other gay fans....(both back then and now)
Hollywood is very quirky about that kind of thing (look at the backlash for Mel Gibson
recently from a drunken slip(s) of the tongue)
I think perhaps Takei felt it might be pretty harmful to any future work he might have attempted to get so he probably kept his cards close to the chest.
And if you go to www.imdb.com and look up the original cast you'll see that aside from the healthy Trek films (until they stopped making them)a surprising number of the original 7 (aside from a sprinkling of TV work) have done a heavy amount of voice work for animated projects---not exactly a high profile movie career for any of them.
None of the original cast aside from Nimoy or Shatner had much of a long term solid career of any sort. (at least not the kind we ordinary fans would consider glamorous)
Although voice over work and the occassional television gig DOES keep food on the table- I wonder how much of all of that Takei would have been able to get if he HAD 'come out' 30 years before now.
(and Hudson is off the top of my head) Imagine how many 'macho' roles Rock Hudson would have been offered if he had come out.
Funny how outspoken Hollywood prides itself to be to the world and yet I am sure there are a good 80 percent of it's employees who still to this very day have to go out of their way to be so very politically correct and SILENT throughout their careers for fear of LOSING future work.
I have to wonder if those of us, like myself, who remember the old Frair's roasts as being so funny would be disappointed upon seeing them again.
\
*****
I watched the video where they had the best of moments, and that was really good. Don't know about a whole video on one subject though. Odd to see Ronald Reagan before he became President (post Gorvernor though).
Too much roasting others and not Shatner, too many gay jokes after awhile, and too many no names for me. (and no names who weren't funny). And I never liked Andy Dick.
And if you go to www.imdb.com and look up the original cast you'll see that aside from the healthy Trek films (until they stopped making them)a surprising number of the original 7 (aside from a sprinkling of TV work) have done a heavy amount of voice work for animated projects---not exactly a high profile movie career for any of them.
None of the original cast aside from Nimoy or Shatner had much of a long term solid career of any sort. (at least not the kind we ordinary fans would consider glamorous)
Um, actually, what they've done IS a very solid, long term career--most actors would kill to have had a career like George's or Walter's.
Not to say that George's career wouldn't have been hurt by coming out earlier--given that he made a name in an action/SF area, being an "out" actor probably wouldn't have been good for casting purposes....
My complaints about the Shatner roast came less from the tone of the evening than from the lack of a reason for most of the roasters to be there. I think the best of the Comedy Central roasts after the Friar's Club stopped having anything to do with them was the Denis Leary one, because nearly all (if not all) of the roasters were his friends/people he'd worked with.
The closet door joke did justify that guy's presence, though.
"I caught a bit of the roast flipping channels, saw Takie’s big sendoff of Shatner at the end of his bit (which was funny only given the context of the history between the two men)"
Actually, it was funny given the context of the show considering that Shatner made his entrance on horseback. I saw that and said, "Oh look...the horse he rode in on," and was a bit amazed it took that long for someone to comment on it.
PAD
What? No love for Clint Howard reprising his role as Moloch(sp)? I thought that was brilliant.
Wow Peter,
I am a conservative Christian, and I've used similar arguments about the quality on Comedy Central, and most people shrug me off as being closed minded or whatever simply because I don't have that disclaimer "I don't give a damn about profanity if it's funny" attached to my views.
It's good to hear someone else complain about the current state of American comedy.
The "shwip shwip" line came from Patton Oswalt. You can always count on him for a good comedic quip.
Plus it helps that he's a genuine comic and literature geek. (He's already written for JLA and The Goon and a couple others)
But yeah, I agree. Overall, it was too much crass, not enough wit.
I watched about ten minutes of the show and turned it off. Like others here, I was amazed that the show was hyped as featuring "the biggest names in comedy." Laura Lampinelli? What the hell has she done besides Comedy Central specials? Andy Dick is painfully annoying every where he goes, even when he wasn't on the dais, his reactions were irritating. Artie Lang? Does a string of failed shows, bad movies and working as Howard Stern's number four sidekick now make someone "one of the biggest names in comedy?"
Why is Comedy Central airing this garbage when every joke has to be bleeped out? I don't mind profanity when the joke is funny, but half of these clowns seem to think dropping an f-bomb in the middle of sentence made it funny.
Horribly unfunny.
What was really pathetic was there was a commercial for an upcoming special on CC about the late Rodney Dangerfield. Now there was a great talent. None of the these third rate clowns could have held a candle to him.
I really think Nimoy and James Spader should have been there. (But really who could blame them for not wanting to appear with Andy Dick?) I'm also sure Jeri Ryan, Zmed, and Aubernjois would have been funnier than the no names. Oswalt was good though.
>>"I caught a bit of the roast flipping channels, saw Takie’s big sendoff of Shatner at the end of his bit (which was funny only given the context of the history between the two men)"
>Actually, it was funny given the context of the show considering that Shatner made his entrance on horseback. I saw that and said, "Oh look...the horse he rode in on," and was a bit amazed it took that long for someone to comment on it.
Easily the best line and moment of the show. :)
We missed it, but coming from Comedy Central it looks like once again we didn't miss much. Maybe it's age, maybe it's maturity, I used to be able to ignore the profanity and "enjoy" similar comedy. Today I can barely watch George Carlin for longer than ten minutes and he was a longtime idol. I don't mind colorful language on a minor scale, I curse of course but there should be limitations to everything.
My rule of thumb for judging actors and comedians has been simple. When your children hasn't been able to watch any work you've done in the last 24 months, then maybe it's time to re-evaluate your work ethics.
Actually, it was funny given the context of the show considering that Shatner made his entrance on horseback. I saw that and said, "Oh look...the horse he rode in on," and was a bit amazed it took that long for someone to comment on it.
Seeing as how I hadn’t caught Shatner’s entrance, that hook to the joke was lost on me. I could only find humor in it on the basis of Shatner having hogged so much face time through the years at the expense of the ‘back four.’
Takei’s bio pointedly remarked on Shatner’s insensitivity in regard to his fellow cast members through the years. There was a certain gleeful element in Takei so publicly being able to say those words to Shatner, even in the context of joking.
While Takei approached Shatner after his bit to soften some of his comments, I can’t help but imagine there wasn’t a little satisfaction to be derived from finally saying those words.
While this show was on, I was forced into watching Bob the Builder. Yeah, I know, but YOU try telling Cloneboy Brian that he has to watch something else.
Glad to see I didn't miss much, really. And to answer Peter's question about style, it seems that yet agian, most TV executives would rather go quick and easy, the heck with quality. It was due, really, these things are cyclical. Produce good stuff for a few years, then ASSUME that everyone has become the LCD, and appeal to them for a while, then when you get tired of people saying TV is a wasteland, produce good stuff again.
On top of everything that has already been said, I was also taken aback by the number of racial jokes at Nichelle's expense. In 2006, is "black people sure do love fried chicken and ribs" really supposed to be a laugh line?
I haven't watched the Roast yet. Just set the DVR for tonight's rerun since I forgot before I left town. wasnt' really expecting much since I generally don't find much funny on Comedy Central except South Park which I only watch sporadically.
I have to admit though it seems to me that a requirement of this sort of thing would be folks who at least have some sort of connection to the roastee, and having been a trek fan for 40 years I would know if who does and who doesn't and some of these folks mentioned here most definitely do not. I will probably watch this one and delete it.
The only reason I'm still interested at this point is to understand all the references made to it by the stars in Vegas since this was pretaped and they knew all about it.
Watching the roast last night, I felt like I did when I went to see The Aristocrats: some of it made me laugh out loud, but a lot of it made me want to take a shower. Call me a prude, but Andy Dick is just gross. Where is the comedy in slobbering over a total stranger who obviously isn't comfortable with what you're doing? And I felt an awful lot of the gay jokes crossed into homophobic territory (although I'm really ashamed to say it, the joke about Andy Dick's sole reason for existence was to give AIDS back to the monkeys made me laugh. I guess it's the delivery of a joke that makes it funny sometimes). I'd like to think I'm broad-minded, having grown up listening to Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor and George Carlin, but even four-letter punch lines have to be funny. And what is funny about Ben Stiller using a gay actor's sexuality to do a riff on being molested as a child?
I've also got to agree with what an awful lot of people have been saying about the choice of panelists. What is the point of having people on stage that are basically total strangers? Did Farah have any reason for being there other than they needed a Courtney Love substitute (read train wreck)to laugh at? Why were there more Star Trek people in the audience than on the dais?
And finally, I have to agree with the older people posting here who have fond memories of the old Dean Martin roasts. I'm not sure that I would find them funny today, but when I was a kid, I used to tape them on my little crappy tape recorder and listen to them over and over. Whatever else you can say about them, those guys knew how to deliver jokes with style. Although I was never a big fan of Foster Brooks and his drunken guy schtick. I couldn't help thinking if they had done a Shatner roast three or four decades ago (admittedly with a much slimmer and less folically challenged Shatner) it would have been a lot more fun to watch. Although I guess George Takei would still be in the closet back then.
It doesn't matter what Lisa Lampanelli's name is. She's not funny. She never has been. There were a lot of comics on there who weren't funny and had no business there as they probably never met George Takei...er...William Shatner.
And why were there so many George Takei jokes? It wasn't about him!
And, most importantly, why did they show this instead of Reno 911?!! That show is actually funny.
To paraphrase Jeffrey Ross (a Friar's Club member). It's a freakin' roast, people.
Yes, it's filled with the run of the mill c-listers that Comedy Central uses. But to a large extent, that's where comedy is today. Working commedians. Of course you're not going to get a Chapelle or a Mencina...you never do. Even when these were the offical friar's club roasts, you had the nobody's getting up there...like Jeffery Ross, who I think all he does is Roasts. Kevin Pollack even did a bit on it at the FC Roast of Rob Reiner, that all of Reiner's big friends weren't there. (IMDB shows Billy Crystal was, though I don't recall). And that one and the Jerry Stiller one were filled with gay jokes too.
Where I was disapointed was in what got cut for broadcast, like Pollack's routine (he's always done an awesome Shatner bit) and Fred Willard's and Nichols, but they left in the completely flopped Farah Fawcett bit. (And given their careers, I imagine she and Shatner have known each other for a number of years).
It was enjoyable, but I would have enjoyed hearing some other people who actually know Shatner have a turn at the podium. I think that would have been funnier.
"Takei’s bio pointedly remarked on Shatner’s insensitivity in regard to his fellow cast members through the years. There was a certain gleeful element in Takei so publicly being able to say those words to Shatner, even in the context of joking."
I've alway heard that the rest of the cast felt marginalized but you know, Star Trek was not ER. It was not an ensemble show. Shatner was the star. It was his show. Well, his and Nimoy's. The rest of the cast were supporting players and if they resent their roles that was something to take up with the producer.
The racial jokes and gay jokes were funny, stereotypes can be funny, but they did get played out after while.
They used toi say Shatner was arrogant and would do certain things that were not generous toi other actors like block them or something from the camera.
"For years Shatner was accused of being difficult to work with by some of his Star Trek co-stars, most notably George Takei and James Doohan, both of whom openly professed that they despised Shatner for being an arrogant, egotistical, line-stealing showboater who tried to keep his co-stars in the background.[1] In the 2004 Star Trek DVD sets, Takei seemed to have buried the hatchet with Shatner, but the gulf between Shatner and Doohan was more difficult. In the 1990s, Shatner made numerous attempts to patch things up with Doohan, but was unsuccessful for some time; however, an Associated Press article published at the time of Doohan's final convention appearance in late August 2004 stated that Doohan had forgiven Shatner and they had mended their relationship."
Doohan was once quoted as saying "I like Captain Kirk, but I can't say that I'm very fond of Bill (Shatner)." He openly despised his fellow Canadian (as did fellow Star Trek actor George Takei), making public statements on radio shows, especially the Howard Stern Show. Doohan accused Shatner of showboating, stealing lines, and trying to keep other actors in the background.
I'm only old enough to remember the Dean Martin Celebrity Roasts that used to run on NBC, but otherwise I agree with everybody here with you Peter.
Why comedians, even those that are truly a part of that profession, have to work "blue" is a mystery I hope gets solved so the problem can be corrected.
Yet in all honesty, I must have been the only person left in the entire universe unaware that George Takei was gay before the roast aired. Not that it makes any difference to me. If he's happy, who am I to argue? But considering all the flack other celebrities have received when they "left the closet", I can't blame Takei for not saying anything earlier than he did.
But in hindsight, do you think the roast could of had anything to do with the fact that September 8th is Star Trek's 40th anniversary? Maybe corporate bigwig somewhere wanted something to tie/cash-in with the event and this was the "best" that could be arranged on short notice.
For sending up Shatner, I still think Shatner and most of the rest of the TOS cast did it best on Futurama. Shoulda just re-aired that episode plus the "Get a Life" SNL instead.
If you watched the audience shots, several Trek members are in there: Jeri Ryan and Brent Spiner were shown a lot.
Sorry to those people mourning "the good old days," but a roast is meant to take good-natured mean-spirited shots at people. Drew Carey gets roasted? Huge numbers of fat jokes. Denis Leary gets roasted? Lots of alcohol jokes. (Though my favorite from that one was when Gilbert Gottfried said that Leary "looks like Sting" with AIDS.) Rob Reiner gets roasted? Fat jokes, bald jokes, and comments on the movie NORTH. Hugh Hefner gets roasted? Tons of jokes about how old he is and what he's done with/to Playboy models. Pamela Anderson gets roasted -- jokes about her breasts and the rockers she slept with. (As the night went on, Courtney Love became a pretty big target too.)Heck, even Shatner said he was disappointed there weren't more Jewish jokes aimed at him. And yes, Takei's coming out made him a popular subject; but I'm sure he knew that heading in.
This wasn't as good as some of the previous roasts -- I liked the Drew Carey one the best -- but there were plenty of laugh-out-loud moments.
Joe Nazzaro: "It doesn't matter what Lisa Lampanelli's name is."
Yes, it does. Love her, hate her, or ignore her: she deserves to have her name posted properly. If I quoted you as Jim Navarro, you'd be ten kinds of pissed off, and rightfully so. And I'm betting that you, unlike Ms. Lampanelli, have never had your own Comedy Central stand-up special.
Joe, again: "And, most importantly, why did they show this instead of Reno 911?!! That show is actually funny."
Couldn't agree more with you here. Roasts are fun, but RENO 911! is one of my favorite shows. Surely they could have picked a time slot that didn't pre-empt Lt. Dangle and company. I'm looking forward to the movie, whenever they get around to releasing the damned thing.
I hate to tell all you folks lamenting the fact that the current generation of comics worked "blue" at the roast are forgetting that those old timers worked blue too. I have sitting next to me two CDs worth of roast recordings released by Milton Berle featuring "Uncle Milty" and the likes of Henny Youngman, Slappy WhiteNorm Crosby, Pat McCormick and Rich Little swearing to make sailors blush.
Two of Comedy Centrals highest rated shows are witty and topical, (Daily Show and Colbert Report) yet the majority of the shows they air are sophomoric junk aimed at juveniles. I'm not surprised that the roast went the way it did, but wish I didn't waste the time watching and hoping it would get better.
Sorry Frank Lauro, for better or worse, the comments you cited are actually not from me but the mysterious 'B' whose post follows mine. Not that I really care all that much, but just to keep the record straight.
On the subject of the Sulu coming out of the closet jokes, I have one thing to offer in the comedians' defense. Since they probably didn't compare notes, none of them knew how much the others had covered that subject. It's moderately recent news, so they probably all wanted to cover it. Once they were on stage, they just all went with what they'd prepared.
I'm sure they all expected some people to cover it, just not everyone.
I hate to tell all you folks lamenting the fact that the current generation of comics worked "blue" at the roast are forgetting that those old timers worked blue too
There's a difference betwen blue and funny, and just blue.
Second raters use it as a crutch (and I oughta know....I use crutches all the time. )
"We had a Stan Lee roast at a Chicago Comicon years ago. I was the toastmaster. Not a single profanity was uttered and the audience laughed itself silly."
Peter, did anyone get that on video? If so, now that Stan is a big star on SciFi, perhaps you could sell them the footage.
What? No love for Clint Howard reprising his role as Moloch(sp)? I thought that was brilliant.
I did love Balok's return, and would have liked to see a little bit more done with it. Not too much, mind you, but if nothing else, Clint Howard could use the screen time.
Then again, Comedy Central isn’t springing for people like Seinfeld, Bernie Mac, Dave Chapelle or even Carlos Mencia.
Sorry, but I just have to say that, of the four, Mencia is the only one I can stand to watch for any length of time.
I just thank God that they didn't have Larry the Cable Guy up there.
-Rex Hondo-
The message here should not be, as several here have said, that comedians shouldn't work blue. George Carlin, Lenny Bruce, Robin Williams, the late Richard Pryor and the late great Bill Hicks -- one of the foulest mouthed and yet most substantial comics ever -- all work or worked blue, and had acts brimming with imagination and ideas and relevance to human life as it is lived on this planet. (It has been said of Hicks, in prticular, that learning he had liver cancer freed him to say the things nobody concerned with his mere career would say.) The message should be that if you work blue you better earn it. The mere statement that so and so stuck something up so and so's ass is not content. It is not creative.
Using what the folks on the Shatner roast did to offer a blanket condemnation of working blue that includes what these worthies have accomplished is the equivalent of confusing the Marx Brothers with the little kid who enters the elegant dinner party and proudly says, "Doodie!"
>Whatever happened to style?
Humour is quite subjective, but I'd say part of the answer to that question is "South Park". I could only watch about ten minutes of the first(?) episode - with the kid having somne alien thing yp his backside - before turnbing off in disgust. As humour goes, the very clever GET SMART it wasn't.
As for roast-style humour, was Don Rickles there? Nobody has his delivery for such things.
God, that wasn't bad. That was just sad. I didn't laugh through 80% of the thing. Shatner, as has been pointed out above, did a better job of it then the "comedians" working the roast. Hell, my friends and I, Shatner fans all, have done a better job sending the man and his career up. My wife did a better job of it the first time I made her sit through Kingdom of the Spiders. Half the posters on this board have done a better job of it in the past.
The biggest problem I had was the blue nature of the humor. They got the blue part down without managing to get the humor part. There's a difference between blue for blue's sake and funny while blue. My three favorite stand-ups are Billy Connolly, Robin Williams and Eddie Izzard. They curse quite a bit. 25 to 30 % of the dialogue in Connolly or Williams' acts are probably the word f**k or a variation of that word. But, if forced to remove the profanity and blue topics from their material, those three would still be funny as hell clean. Most of the roasters used the blue as the set up, build up and punch line. There was no thought and no humor in it. It was like listening to a bunch of foul mouthed third graders.
The Dean Martin roasts: Still funny. I friend of mine got the DVD sets being sold on TV not that long ago. Not the 10s I remembered from my younger days but still 7s to 8s depending on the roast.
Now I need to look into Connolly's stuff more, Jerry -- based on the other two (whose work I like a lot, along with early Carlin), he's probably worth it as well. Thanks for the recommendation, however inadvertent!
TWL
I don't want to weigh in on the debate wether it was good or not, but I'd like to remind people that the old Dean Martin roasts were done for network TV, and everyone there knew it. According to what I've read while researching a book on comedy in the 40's and 50's, the roasts back then at the Friar's Club when it was a private club for comedians only would make the Shatner Roast look like Sunday School.
I've only had a chance to skim these posts, so if someone else has mentioned this already, I apologize.
Several years ago, I saw a broadcast of some event commemorating a major Star Trek anniversary. I can't remember which anniversary, but I do remember "Voyager" was still in first run at the time. It was set up like an awards show: an audience filled with Star Trek luminaries from all four T.V. series ("Enterprise" hadn't debuted yet), including Shatner, Stewart, Nichols, Mulgrew, and more.
Ben Stiller gave a speech where he talked about how he fell in love with the original Star Trek. He made it clear he considered the original to be the "real" Star Trek, as opposed to "The New Generation" (sic) or "Deep Space Twelve" (sic).
My jaw dropped. I though, "Jesus! There's cast memebers, producers, directors and writers from ALL OF THE SHOWS in the audience!!!! Is this guy a complete asshole, or just stupid?"
By the way, if you never saw the show, consider yourself lucky. It was bargain-basement all the way. They even did this awful sketch with Kate Mulgrew as Captain Janeway, commanding the bridge of Voyager with a crew consisting of Jane Leeves, John Mahoney, and David Hyde Pierce playing their characters from "Frasier!"
Presumably Kelsey Grammer knew enough to say "no" to that. Truly, truly bad stuff.
Regarding the Aniversary bid with the Fraser cast it was for the 35th Aniversary special(or was it 30th?)
The sketch was suposed to include all the Fraser cast. Kelsey Grammer had agreed to do it but at the last minute he went into rehab and Kate Mulgrew was asked if she wanted to step in.
I did love Balok's return, and would have liked to see a little bit more done with it. Not too much, mind you, but if nothing else, Clint Howard could use the screen time.
In retrospect, Clint really should have had a role in SoaP.
Tim Lynch,
I would recommend (in this order):
Billy Connolly Live - The Greatest Hits
or
Billy Connolly - Erect for 30 Years.
They were around $10.00 each.
Both American formatted DVDs just went out of production so they may be a bit hard to find new. The only catch is that you would have to go through about 20 minutes (out of 2 hours 21 and 1 hour 43 respectively) on each of his evolution from a folk singer/comedian to a stand up. But, if you like funny folk songs mixed with jokes you'll be fine. Oh, it also helps if you have a good ear for understanding accents. He's from Glascow and his accent gets really thick when he's on a roll.
They just put out his Live in New York (Too Old to Die Young Tour 2005). It's ok but certainly not his best.
Also see http://www.billyconnolly.com
Always glad to help create another Connolly maniac.
Cory!! Strode,
Yeah, those guys did reallllly blue humor too when they weren't checked by TV standards. I've heard more then a bit of it and laughed my tail off. But, thing is, a lot of it was humor that would still be funny clean had some sort of thought to it. The stuff from the guys on the Shatner roast was all blue and no humor with little or no thougt.
Not my cuppa. But if others liked it... Fine.
>I don't want to weigh in on the debate wether it was good or not, but I'd like to remind people that the old Dean Martin roasts were done for network TV, and everyone there knew it. According to what I've read while researching a book on comedy in the 40's and 50's, the roasts back then at the Friar's Club when it was a private club for comedians only would make the Shatner Roast look like Sunday School.
... and let's not forget the huge pr mess that hit Ted Danson when he did a roast in black face while dating Whoopie Goldburg. This stuff is definitely low brow humor for the most part, but most roasts tend to fall that way.
Tim, I second the rec on Connolly--I'm a little surprised that, outside of the growing BOONDOCK SAINTS cult, relatively few Americans have heard of him. (Admittedly, some of the stuff I've seen could have benefitted from subtitles, though it's nowhere near as bad as TRAINSPOTTING, which had one character who uttered not a single word I could make out, other than the curses).
[b][i]"By the way, if you never saw the show, consider yourself lucky. It was bargain-basement all the way. They even did this awful sketch with Kate Mulgrew as Captain Janeway, commanding the bridge of Voyager with a crew consisting of Jane Leeves, John Mahoney, and David Hyde Pierce playing their characters from "Frasier!"
Presumably Kelsey Grammer knew enough to say "no" to that. Truly, truly bad stuff."[/b][/i]
While I don't know the kind of humor that went into that piece, The set up is kind of a funny joke in and of itself had Kelsey Grammer actualy done the piece... He did play a starship captain (at least once in TNG) after all. So having that captain with a crew from the frasier show is funny in and of itself. Though(not having seen it for myself) judging from the comments here it sounds like the Joke would have been ruined as soon as they oppened their mouths.
"Peter, did anyone get that on video? If so, now that Stan is a big star on SciFi, perhaps you could sell them the footage."
Yeah, I have it. But I don't think it'd be appropriate to sell it.
PAD
As for the roast, I saw a bit of Pamela Anderson's roast from the previous one, and it was all dick dick dick, sex tape sex tape sex tape, Tommy Lee's wang, etc. etc. Its simply a matter of the main audience demographic for Comedy Central. As bad as Anderson got it, her friend Courtney "30 miles of Bad Road" Love was up there and she got it even worse (though I thought the "she looks worse that Kurt Cobain" quip was alright). A high class friars club style with bottles of champagne and so forth wouldn't fly. This is William Shatner - I'm going to go out on a limb and assume he's not exactly a huge draw for the station's younger audience, so when they piece the show together, you go for easy gags that'll play to the cheap seats. So to speak.
Oh, and for that Stan Lee roast footage, how about instead of selling or something like that just Youtube-ing it for all? Best video site on the web. People would get a kick out of it seeing it for sure.
>
Kelsey Grammer coulnd't do the show because he was servicing a jail sentance, (or was it court enforced mandatory rehab, I forget) at the time. If he could have been there I'm sure he would have been, the origninal idea was for him to be there. (Around that time there were a few episodes of Fraiser without Fraiser in them for that exact same reason).
I doubt that the episode will end up on UK TV but my views as a gay guy are these:
First, you get crap thrown at you all the time. Least George keeps his dignity.
Second, if he was offended by it I'm sure he would have walked out.
Third, it does smack a bit of "cheap laughs" the whole set up and show. Never seen it but ... you get that feeling.
Then again, hard cash speaks to a lot of people. How much did they get for performing?
Was that Frasier thing the same one that had Jason Alexander in a TOS uniform? Personally, and of course this is just me, being a mild Trek fan and a big Frasier and Cheers fan (okay, I need therapy for this Trek addiction, but at least I acknowledge it, okay?) I thought it was pretty funny. As I recall, though, that was the only bit that I really laughed at.
Jason Alexander wasn't part of the Frasier/Voyager sketch. He may have appeared at some other point during the show. I don't remember. I've blocked it out of my memory.
I do remember the 30th (I'm pretty sure) Anniversary Special, particularly a rather cringeworthy comment from Danson about his biggest tie to Trek being that his girlfriend's ex-husband killed Captain Kirk.
Huh, I didn't know Mary Steenburgen was married to Malcolm McDowell. But why is that comment cringeworthy?
Huh, I didn't know Mary Steenburgen was married to Malcolm McDowell. But why is that comment cringeworthy?
Well, on the one hand, his delivery was rather lacking. It also drew attention to Danson not really having a real reason to be there. But mostly, it just seemed crass to point out, "The lady's with me now," in such a public forum.
-Rex Hondo-
Sorry, guys, but the Dean Martin Roasts sucked. There was no real comedy there. There were lots of cutaways to the attendees "supposedly" laughing at the comic jokes.
The best roast I ever saw on TV was done on HBO, a "tribute" to Budd Friedman, the guy who runs the Improv stand-up comedy club. And although it included big-name comedians, the clear winner was the relatively lower-level and under-appreciated Martin Mull. He "honored" the others with perfectly crafted lines.
"This is where Robin Williams turned a debilitating mental handicap into a six-figure paycheck," Mull said. And about the most perfectionist comic present: "This is where Robert Klein practiced and Practiced and PRACTICED that spontaneity..."
The killer was, "This is where Paul Rodriguez discovered the wellspring of material to be found in making fun of one's own people, making him the envy of every non-Hispanic comic. God knows, I'd like to tell jokes like, 'When does a Mexican know when he's hungry? His ass stops burning,' but that's your territory, pal, I won't step in it."
And he did it without any sexual references, and completely attaching his jokes to the character and professional behavior of these comedians. A pity the only work Mull gets these days is Ziploc bag commercials and Vlad Plasmius voice acting gigs on "Danny Phantom."
Thomas E. Reed: "Sorry, guys, but the Dean Martin Roasts sucked. There was no real comedy there. There were lots of cutaways to the attendees "supposedly" laughing at the comic jokes."
I think you're forgetting that humor is subjective. I've seen a couple of Dean Martin roasts and thought they were very funny. While I appreciate your attempt to let us down gently with your apology, there really was no need for it. Your opinion is just that: your opinion.
Thomas, I'd like to clarify one thing just in case it isn't clear: when I said "there really was no need for it," I was referring to your apology only. You're as entitled to express your opinions about art as much as anyone else.
"And although it included big-name comedians, the clear winner was the relatively lower-level and under-appreciated Martin Mull. He "honored" the others with perfectly crafted lines."
That doesn't surprise me. It seems in any get-together of comedians where he's present, Mull comes out on top. There were a ton of comics in "The Aristocrats" and yet his version was definitely the best (although Sara Silverman's was up there, and the magician was more amazingly impressive than funny.)
PAD
I remember the Improv tribute, but I think Mull did make at least one sexual reference: about a waitress who had blown every comedian who worked there.
Still, it was 1,000 times funnier than anything I saw at the Shatner roast, so I'll just echo what others have said: There's nothing wrong with a comedian telling a blue joke, so long as the joke is funny. But "going blue" isn't and should not be seen as a substitute for actually being funny.
I watched some of the Pamela Anderson roast from last year and probably shouldn't have even tried the Shatner roast because it was clearly by the same people.
About the only funny thing in the Pam Anderson roast was watching Courtney Love repeatedly insist that she'd been sober for six months when it was obvious she was completely wasted.
While I thought it was funny in bits, maybe I was in a dirty frame of mind at the time. I also found it too dirty at times.
I didn’t see the roast, so I can’t speak about that but I to echo what Jason M. Bryant said about the comedians probably not comparing notes. When my Dad was in high school, he did a rendition of Andy Griffith’s classic “What It Was Was Football” routine at some sort of assembly before the entire school. The thing is, he wasn’t the only one who decided to go with that bit, but as it was the only one he’d rehearsed, when it was his turn to go up, he was stuck repeating the same bit everyone had heard _many_ times before.
Now granted “What It Was Was Football” is in no way comparable to jokes about a person’s sexual orientation, but I’d have to agree the same principal probably applied. The comedians at the roast went with what they had. Although, being (presumably) professionals, I’d hope that at least _some_ of them attempted to rework their material.
Bill Myers, the program you’re describing celebrated Star Trek’s 30th anniversary. At the end, all the various Trek stars in attendance come up on stage and are presented with plaques by Mae Jemison and Buzz Aldrin. I gotta admit I liked that part.
Don’t remember the Ben Stiller goof, but one thing I do remember from the 30th anniversary celebration was Joan Collins at the podium talking about how her character, Edith Keeler, was enthralled by Hitler.
Um, no Joan. Your character never so much as _mentions_ Hitler’s name. Not in the episode, or in Harlan Ellison’s original script. Where she got that idea I have no clue, but it would have been nice if someone had corrected her. I would have. I’d probably have been nice about it, but I’d have done it.
You think the _Voyager_ skit with the _Frasier_ actors was bad, O.K. I haven’t seen it since the special aired, so I can’t give a fresh opinion; but I feel pretty confident that a skit with Jason Alexander and two other people whose names I now forget which aired in a special following DeForest Kelley’s 1999 death went far beyond bad into extremely bad taste. I don’t remember all that happened, but it ends with McCoy dying. It was, as they say, craptastic.
Rick
Let me preface this by saying that I'm the furthest thing from being culturally PC, right down to my shoulder stockless, NOT-meant-for-hunting, Moe-on-"The Simpsons" Mossberg "house" shotgun that's probably illegal in most "British Commonwealth" countries (and probably San Francisco in a few years!). I don't really know
how much of an asshole Andy Dick really is, but it seemed to me that the William Shatner Roast was almost a sideshow for a night of the most juvenile kind of shameless gay-bashing against him and George Takei reminiscent of the just-post AIDS days of the Reagan Administration. This is totally unacceptable, especially for the Hollywood scene. If an eastern Yankee-boy like yours truly who's willing to use lethal force to defend his home (whether it's legal or not) can nonetheless understand that at least SOME of what Dr. Alfred Kinsey said about homosexuality is true, I subsequently think it is totally strange that a state which now borders close to the mentality that would like to ban the sale of my Mossberg (and all tobacco too) would take a diametrically opposite attitude on the subject. I USED to think that "PC is just the flip-side of reactionism", but apparently in California they are one-and-the-same!
While I didn't find the roast as bad as PAD did, I did want to KILL the editor. All of the comedians I'd never heard of (and I know I'm not alone on that considering the running joke about them being unknowns)had their segments run in their entirety. Several people I would have liked to have heard more from had their segments scaled down. (Nichelle Nichols, Fred Willard, Kevin Pollack, Andy Dick.) It's as if it was more about promoting Comedy Central's stable of regulars or something. All of Farrah Fawcett's segment was shown and that was just painfully embarassing to watch.
Kudos, however, on getting Clint Howard to reprise his role as Balok.
I thought the Pamela Anderson roast was funny. The first four presenters were spot-on with their jokes, IMO, and Courtney Love was just plain annoying, given her constant attempts to interrupt the presenter and call attention to herself. If she's been sober for a year, then perhaps she just gave up her last excuse for acting like a moron.
Bill Myers, no apology necessary, dude. I should have said "not funny TO ME." But I have seen an awful lot of bad roasts.
A lot of these shows booked B or C list talents, many of whom were not comedians, comics or comic actors. And while, at a private roast, some of the participants might have written their own stuff, a lot of the Martin roasts were scripted by the show's regular writers.
There were some people who apparently made their living off TV roasts in the 60's. They never seemed to do anything else in show business. Red Buttons always did the same awful routine. "Gee, Honored Guest got a dinner. But I never got a dinner...Attilla the Hun never got a dinner...Marie Antoinette never got a dinner..."
And then there was George Jessel. I don't know what he was like in his prime, or in private Friar's Club roasts, but on TV he was freakin' weird. He was like the crazy old grandpa people kept locked up in the closet, brought into the presence of normal people for Thanksgiving dinner. At the time I saw him, he wore some kind of phony military uniform with lots of ribbons, still did a dumb bit where he talked to his "Mama" on the phone, and still thought his Jolson impression was killer.
Bill Myers, no apology necessary, dude. I should have said "not funny TO ME." But I have seen an awful lot of bad roasts.
A lot of these shows booked B or C list talents, many of whom were not comedians, comics or comic actors. And while, at a private roast, some of the participants might have written their own stuff, a lot of the Martin roasts were scripted by the show's regular writers.
There were some people who apparently made their living off TV roasts in the 60's. They never seemed to do anything else in show business. Red Buttons always did the same awful routine. "Gee, Honored Guest got a dinner. But I never got a dinner...Attilla the Hun never got a dinner...Marie Antoinette never got a dinner..."
And then there was George Jessel. I don't know what he was like in his prime, or in private Friar's Club roasts, but on TV he was freakin' weird. He was like the crazy old grandpa people kept locked up in the closet, brought into the presence of normal people for Thanksgiving dinner. At the time I saw him, he wore some kind of phony military uniform with lots of ribbons, still did a dumb bit where he talked to his "Mama" on the phone, and still thought his Jolson impression was killer.
PAD wrote"one of the comedians made a joke that George came out of the closet 30 years after the end of Star Trek (and his career ^_^). I've wondered why he didn't make that choice earlier. "
One possible reason I thught that George may have waited so long to come out was that as a Japanese-American he had already been victimized once in his lifetime for being a minority when his family was placed in an internment camp during World War II. I could see why experiencing something like that might make you a bit cautious about admitting to the world that you are secretly another kind of minority.
One possible reason I thught ...
I hate when I miss my own typo.
I enjoyed this a lot. I seem to be in the minority. Maybe it is because I am a huge Howard Stern fan. Artie Lange is one hell of a funny guy. Crude, yes, but thats his style. His relationship with George Takei (they are the modern odd couple) makes their jokes even funnier. Anyone who has listened to George on the show knows how much he hates Shatner, for treating him like garbage. It was always Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelly...and then the rest, but Spock and Bones would at least respect them. Shatner never did.
Lisa Lampenelli (not Laura) is also one funny gal. Again, a semi regular on Stern, I know a lot of her back story. She make sfun of her self in that she is fat and that she only dates black guys. If you know her backstory, it makes a lot of the little comments even funner.
I like having the C listers there. They can go places that A listers often don't or won't. Stop hate'n on them!