My agent, Frank Balkin, has a saying when it comes to show biz: Most things that probably will happen, don’t. This is sage advice whenever you encounter people who are telling you about a movie that they’ve allllllmost got the financing for, or a deal is allllllmost in place.
Apparently this is also occurring for the creators whose work was supposed to be part of the new “Epic” line, who are basically watching their inventory being burned off in a quarterly publication. Sort of the equivalent of jumping straight past the whole monthly thing and go straight to the trade paperbacks, except they’re collecting the entire line rather than a single title.
In retrospect, I guess it should have been obvious. It is standard operating procedure in Hollywood that when a major development executive gets canned, one of the first things his successor does is dump all the significant projects the exec had in development. Why? No percentage in seeing it through. If the project succeeds, the new exec gets no credit for it because the guy they fired was the one who brought it into the fold. Heck, it even makes people start wondering why the guy was let go in the first place. On the other hand, if the project fails, the new guy gets the blame. “Why did you see that project through? It was being developed by a guy we got RID OF, for crying out loud? What’s wrong with you?”
Same deal with Marvel. Where’s the percentage in continuing Epic, which was a high profile Jemas project? If it takes off, Jemas was a genius. If it tanks, why in the world did they continue with a new line conceived by a guy they marginalized into irrelevancy?
By the way…”Nowhere Man” is a far superior title to “Phantom Jack.” “Nowhere Man” has poetry to it. “Phantom Jack” sounds like something the Phantom uses to fix a flat tire. Why’d they change it, anyway? Legal problems because of the Beatles tune? If so, okay. If not, it was a mistake.
PAD
• 
Doubt it had anything to do with legal issues with a Beatles song, as there was a short-lived show on UPN (back about the time the network started) called Nowhere Man…. In fact that could be your answer right there. Though I doubt anyone much cares about a forgetton TV series from 1995-ish… the title may still be copyrighted.
It’s too bad. If you ask me the idea to bring back Epic and let some rookies get a chance was a fantastic.
It’s too bad. If you ask me the idea to bring back Epic and let some rookies get a chance was a fantastic.
Maybe so, but will the buying public want to take a chance on unknowns for $2.99/$3.50 a crack? Marvel needs to sell so many copies to make it worthwhile for them.
I would guess the UPN series Nowhere Man had something to do with it.
Was sorry to hear about Epic. I procrastinated my shot away..
<
I doubt it. There is a TV SERIES called ALIAS and a comic book called ALIAS and the two have NOTHING to do with each other.
My guess: Someone in the comics world has the rights to the
>Was sorry to hear about Epic.<
Me too! I thought it was a great idea!
> I procrastinated my shot away.. <
Again, me too! I was thinking I might sooner or later try this Epic thing out…now…lol. But you know, I am kind of glad I didn’t try. I mean even if I had been expected…this would have happened…
Imagine how the people who got excepted must feel right now…
The only thing I can hope is..that this won’t keep those potential comics people from trying again with another publisher. Expecially the ‘Phantom Jack’ people. Their story and art looks very interesting.
DF2506
” Hopefully theres still hope for the series..but I highly doubt it…” 🙁
Just shoot me, but I actually liked Phantom Jack better than Nowhere Man.
Phantom Jack reminds me of heros like Jack Staff and Union Jack(hmm, wonder if Phantom Jack was going to be British?). Nowhere Man may have poetry to it but I guess for me it just doesn’t have that “kick in the head” sound that makes you remember it.
I feel terrible for all those involved
whoops
The ‘Nowhere Man’ thing was a matter of copyright, but I don’t remember what for.
Just in general, though, I think it would be pretty impossible to copyright a pre-existing word like ‘Alias’. You can copyright the concept of “Alias: a former super-heroine turned private eye”, but not the word itself. It would be like naming some character Curtain and then trying to sue fabric companies for using it in ads or what not.
You can copyright a name you invented, so Kurten would be the way to go there.
I think.
About Epic: I, for one, was not going to buy any of the titles, but now – as long as it’s within a $6 price range – am planning to get the anthology. Go figure.
Nowhere Man, from what I can recall, was a TV show that went absolutely nowhere. And what’s this, Epic may be folding up soon? Can’t say I’m all that bothered myself, I dunno.
Forgot the second part (good morning):
While it is entirely possible to copyright a new combination of pre-existing words, like Nowhere Man, or the Incredible Hulk.
I bet any company could start up a comic or TV series called the Hulk and never get sued, as long as they stay away from Marvel’s concept (and images, natch).
You can’t copyright titles. You can trademark them. It may seem like a minor difference, but the protections are completely different.
Copyright protects creations for a statutory length of time.
Trademarks are protected only so long as the mark is in use. Furthermore, if someone else uses the same mark or title in a market that provides no conflict, there is no problem.
Alias the television show and Alias the comic are both trademarks. They’re in different markets, so the mark is allowed to exist for both. That’s why when the Alias comic was mentioned a while ago (haven’t heard anything for a while), it was going to be called something along the lines of “Alias: Sydney’s Missions” or somesuch.
If I wanted to start making pickles and use the name “Green Lantern Pickles.” There wouldn’t be a problem…unless DC could prove they were going to move into the condiment aisle anytime soon.
Now…trademark protection ends within a ‘reasonable time’ of the end of use of the mark. That’s how DC lost the Adventure Comics trademark a few years back. Now that the Alias comic is ending, an Alias (TV series) comic could come out in a couple of years and just call itself “Alias.” There wouldn’t be confusion because there’s only one on the market.
Apparently, IIR his column correctly, there was another title coming out about the same time called Nowhere Men, and the lawyers panicked.
Mike San Giacomo explained the change in the title in the column he’s been writing for Newsarama. Here’s the link: http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4230
Cripes, the legal people thought “Nowhere Man” would cause confusion with “Nowhere Men?” Uh boy.
Still a lousy title though. Lessee…what would have sounded better to my ear?
Vanishing Point
M.I.A.
The Missing Man
Fast Fade
The Invisibles–okay, maybe not that one.
PAD
I got caught in the final Epic whirlpool. I sent in a draft for a proposed new Cloak and Dagger series. I sent it in September and just received the rejection letter last week. I only wish I had some indication of whether or not it was actually read. Was it rejected because it was pure crap, because my timing was off or both?
Oh, well. Back to the writing board.
I had a feeling the whole Epic thing wasn’t going to last. There was just something about the way it was done that didn’t seem right.
Personally, if I believed that they were actually going to read a submission of mine then I would have submitted something. However, most of the people who got accepted into the Epic program seemed like relatively established creators rather than total newbies (Mark Millar and his book Trouble for instance).
“The Missing Man”
Already used as the title of an obscure [and typically weird] Ditko back-up tale character.
Cliff Clavin mode: ON
Speaking of title changes. The movie “GoodFellas” was based on a book called “Wiseguy”. Of course they couldn’t use that title because of the Ken Wahl series “Wiseguy” was running at the time.
Cliff Claven mode: OFF
Whenever folks complain about titles being cancelled, not being promoted enough, or even insensitive comments coming from the comics bullpen, and refer to it as “attacking fans” or “ignoring fans,” I always regard it with a wary eye. It isn’t that I disagree, it’s just that I’m trying to distance myself emotionally in order to form an unbiased opinion.
But in the case of the announcement of the Anthology, it’s tough for me to imagine a more direct and blatant betrayal of the fans. I’m PAD is right when he says Marvel is distancing themselves from Jemas projects, but I think it would’ve been nice, rather than to simply pull out the rug from under all of his efforts, take it and transform it into something better. I guess I’m just naive.
It’s feeling better and better not buying anything from Marvel.
Posted by ERBFan:
Cliff Clavin mode: ON
Speaking of title changes. The movie “GoodFellas” was based on a book called “Wiseguy”. Of course they couldn’t use that title because of the Ken Wahl series “Wiseguy” was running at the time.
Cliff Claven mode: OFF
Cliff Claven mode back ON again:
For that matter, it’s a little known fact that the director of the movie Field of Dreams lobbied long and hard for the movie to bear the same name as W.P. Kinsella’s original book. Shoeless Joe but was ultimately rebuffed. Breaking the news to the author, the director learned that Kinsella actually had another name in mind for the book, but his publishers convinced him to change the title. His original choice? The Dream Field.
Cliff Clavin mode back OFF…
I think Epic was doomed from the start. Marvel was so unclear about what it was going to be from the first start. It was a forum for creator owned projects. No it isn’t. It’s a good way for new blood to get into the business, but one of the first projects is a book by one of Jemas’ favorites, Mark Millar.
Jemas’ departure from the creative portion of Marvel probably just hastened its demise.
I think Cronenberg’s Dead Ringers was supposed to be called Twins, but the Arnold/DeVito film got there first.
Out of curiosity, how far can the Trademark go? While you might get away with Green Lantern Pickles, could you get away with Superman TV Dinners? Or Batman Toothpaste? Or Wonder Woman Bra and Panties?
In a practical sense, it probably wouldn’t be a good idea to try to sell Superman TV dinners or the like. Leaving aside issues of dilution, characters like the DC (Marvel, Disney, whatever) characters are so widely licensed that it would be hard to a) prove that you weren’t trying to draw a connection with the trademarked character, and b) market something that couldn’t possibly conflict with a potential license. There’s Superman ice cream, and there was once Superman peanut butter, so Superman TV dinners are entirely likely. (And there’s already been Wonder Woman underwear–remember Underoos?)
(The above characters aren’t necessarily the best example, because the trademarked names are inextricably associated in the public mind with the characters in question. I expect you could get away with, say, Lobo cigars or Sandman pillowcases, as long as you didn’t tread too close to the characters in question.)
And, as always, I’m not a lawyer, so someone else may have a better idea of what the legal tests are than I do.
Posted by Robbnn:
Out of curiosity, how far can the Trademark go? While you might get away with Green Lantern Pickles, could you get away with Superman TV Dinners? Or Batman Toothpaste? Or Wonder Woman Bra and Panties?
I also am no lawyer, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But as I understand it, the concept of trademark fundamentally revolves around the idea of preserving the public’s recognition of that mark.
Cases of trademark infringement, then, would be largely be discussed in terms of the degree to which a usage (1) is likely to cause the public to become confused as to what the trademark really represents and/or (2) dilutes or blurs what the trademark represents, for instance by associating it with things different from the way the trademark is typically used, or by using the trademark in what would be contrued as an unfavorable light.
(All that said, I believe there are nonetheless some allowances for usages of trademarks in terms of parody, satire, reportage, etc..)
As noted above, hugely famous characters like Superman and Wonder Woman are likely to be recognized as such famous trademarks that a trademark-dilution claim against, say, unautorized Batman toothpaste would likely be found credible. (On the other hand, if this “Batman toothpaste” was earnestly used only to indentify a specific toothpaste made in the city Batman in Eastern Turkey, well, maybe that wouldn’t quite be found infringing…)
There are surely complexities and nuances I’m not even getting into here. But, as I said, I am no lawyer, and anyway, every case is unique…
I felt guilty for not sending something in when I saw the Crimson Dynamo series.
But this current whirlpool makes me glad I didn’t. Man, talk about leaving behind a legacy of pìššëd øff fans.
I didn’t much like Jemas, but he’s really catching a hëll of a lot of blame lately.
This is why I stayed away from this whole EPIC (the most ironically named imprint ever) thing. Seemed like a big train wreck from the get-go. Although a handful of people asked me to get in on pitches with them, I refused. If hey wanted to go though that gutwrenching process and then come back to me after something’s approved, fine, maybe then I would’ve drawn it…but I wasn’t gonna suffer with them. I did get roped into writing a story for another artist, but quickly came to my senses before I got too far along.
I feel bad for anyone that had to go through this. Although for people who pitched, it was good exposure and a learning experience. I feel worse for the poor editors who I’m sure have gotten most of the flak for this debacle, even though it was higher ups who I’m sure were calling the shots.
UPN’s ‘Nowhere Man’, for those interested, was about an amnesia sufferer who was being hunted by both the Feds and the ‘bad’ guys for something (never revealed) in his lost memories.
The last episode that I saw revealed that the ex-CIA agent that the amnesia sufferer was looking for who might be able to help him straighten out this mess was actually himself! If there was another episode aired passed this one, alas I cannot swear to it, but I would have liked to see this come out to some kind of a ‘satisfactory’ conclusion.
Meanwhile Sydney is current dealing with the lack of her two missing years/memory on ‘Alias’ with the mysterious Julia Thorne and the Covenant after whatever is lost in her head.
And who said there wasn’t any ‘original’ ideas left??? LOL!
Why is Jemas getting all the credit/blame for this Epic thing anyway. He might have had the idea to revive the line, but the name and the concept were brought into exsistance way back when Shooter was running Marvel. BTW, this a little off the piont, but I started reading comics during Shooter’s reign at Marvel and always thought he was a great writer and editor-in-chief (the New Universe wasn’t any worse then some of things they’ve come out with before or since), but I have heard people say that he was a bossy, hard to work with, Jemas-like control freak himself. (The Valiant people the same thing when they ousted him. Of course Valiant went straight down the tubes after he left.)Now I never worked for him, but I always liked his stuff and if he started yet another comic line, I would buy it.
Does anybody else have any thoughts or opinions on this?
I submitted an original series proposal called “Strongarm” to the Epic program, and received a rejection a month later, after the line was more-or-less killed off. I’m currently shopping it around to other publishers, as I still think it’s a strong concept, no pun intended.
Nowhere Man was one of UPN’s best series, actually their second highest rated show after Voyager, but UPN decided it wanted to be a sitcom Network, so it cancelled Nowhere Man (and basically every show but Voyager) for a slew of sitcoms like “Homeboys from Outer Space” and “Goode Behavior” that nearly all vanished within a season due to abysmal ratings.
There was no episode past the finale where he discovers the CIA agent he is looking for maybe himself (or it might have been more misdirection on the conspiracy’s part).
Great series killed before it was allowed to go anywhere. UPN was a lot like FOX back then.
I also think Jim Shooter was a very interesting writer. “Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars” formed one of the cornerstones of my idea of the Marvel Universe (and also had more generally accurate characterization than probably any of the subsequent comic crossover/super events). His other work I’ve read has also been very good. And, all of the Marvel Universe was a very good place to be in the 1980s. New ideas and formats were tried, and the overall quality of Marvel Comics were very high, under Shooter’s watch. Whatever the circumstances of his departure [www.comicbookresources.com/features/shooter1/ (and …shooter2/) has Jim Shooter’s take, for anyone interested (if you haven’t seen it already; it is a couple of years old).], it does seem as though Shooter should get some credit for the bloom Marvel had in the 80’s. And I would also be curious to read something new from him.
Just the opinion of one long-time Marvel reader, outside looking in.
RabidWolf:
Sorry to hear that the last episode I remember seeing was the last one, period.
‘Nowhere Man’ was definitely UPN’s ‘John Doe’ (Fox).
Of course, you could also reverse this analogy by using Fox’s ‘Adventures of Briscoe County, Junior’ and UPN’s ‘Legacy’.
And if anyone actually remembers those, then they’re in the ratings minority with me that misses all the good (sci-fi/fantasy/etc.) shows that were cancled before their time.
Phantom Jack moves to Image
http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6598
Glad to see their work isn’t going to waste.
Doug Atkinson: Leaving aside issues of dilution, characters like the DC (Marvel, Disney, whatever) characters are so widely licensed that it would be hard to a) prove that you weren’t trying to draw a connection with the trademarked character, and b) market something that couldn’t possibly conflict with a potential license.
Nah, that’s easy. Just pick an area where the names make sense and you know a company like that wouldn’t venture into… like sex toys.
Superman (obvious)… Batman (bats like dark caves)… Flash (mild electric shocks, or just really fast)… the small and friendly mickey Mouse… I could go on forever.
: )
Phantom Jack moves to image….
….which publishes NOWHERE MEN. And Mike has written in an arch nemesis, called….Nowhere Man.
Heh.
Wow! Just read the news about Phantom Jack going to Image and I think thats pretty cool!
It was really the only EPIC book I was really looking forward too (I’m a regular reader of My Epic Journey)
I’ll definitly be getting the book when it goes to Image and I usually don’t buy any Image comics.
DF2506