Summarizing Negative Fan Reaction To Shatterstar

Posted By: Peter DavidPosted On:

IN THE PAST: “We hate Marvel Comics because they never listen to the fans or what fans want.”

NOW: “Peter David listened to fan suggestions about Rictor and Shatterstar? What a complete lack of imagination! What an idiot!”

Y’know, when I first started this job…I had hair.

PAD

102 comments on “Summarizing Negative Fan Reaction To Shatterstar”

  1. Y’know, I think it was Stan Lee who said, “Never give the fans what they ask for. Give them what they WANT.”

    Mr. David, it seems that you give the fans what they want all the time – if it coincides with what they ask for, that’s fine, but I like the way you do the business.

    It seems that you’re one of the very few who gets it – that the fans don’t even know what they want, and when you give them what they ask for, then there’s nothing to keep them around.

    Ðámņ shame that so many current writers are giving fans what they ask for, which won’t keep the crowds coming back.

    Hëll, I think that’s part of Marvel’s biggest problem of regular company crossovers – sure, it’s what fans seem to want, and they sell real well for a brief time. But those of us who are only collecting a few Marvel comics find it easier to dump them than keep up on every… single… dámņ… comic!

    Of course, now that Marvel seems to be going back to the 90s concept of “New issue number 1’s mean bigger sales!” and are canceling books to do this, I guess it doesn’t much matter what the writers do…

    Stupid business practices. Stupid comic book people. I think Charlie Brown was right – AARGH!

    I remain,
    Sincerely,
    Eric L. Sofer
    The Silver Age Fogey
    x<]:o){

    1. “Hëll, I think that’s part of Marvel’s biggest problem of regular company crossovers – sure, it’s what fans seem to want, and they sell real well for a brief time. But those of us who are only collecting a few Marvel comics find it easier to dump them than keep up on every… single… dámņ… comic!”

      I have to say, the main reason I dropped comics is the perpetual cross-overs. I loved ’em at first, with Secret Wars 2, the inter-connected annuals, the yearly X-books crossover… but now it’s a NEVER ENDING SERIES! At least since Decimation, Marvel has been on one continuous crossover, and you know what? The story lines have suffered for it. The writing quality plummeted. Especially work by Brian Bendis. Normally I’d buy a book simply because it had his name on it… but then he started writing EVERYTHING, and his quality went downhill. Ultimate Spider-Man became an exercise in “what classic Spider-Man story can we rape today?”

      DC is no better, as they bored us to tears with their never-ending Crisis buildup / fallout.

    2. “Ðámņ shame that so many current writers are giving fans what they ask for, which won’t keep the crowds coming back.”

      THis is a bizarre and illogical generalization.

      Stan Lee was making a cute point regarding how he would surprise people and surpass expectations.

      You can’t apply that across the board, especially when “what fans want” can be something general or specific.

  2. “Y’know, when I first started this job…I had hair.”

    We demand photographic evidence!

    I must be travelling in the wrong circles… I hear nothing but praise for this issue.

      1. Cleary those are legit sources and strangely the only ones that bought the Youngblood hardcover – hmmmmm.

      2. There will always be some fans who live to bìŧçh about whatever the creators are doing, but who keep on buying the material. I spent years in Harry Potter fandom; they practically raise unreasonable reactions to an Olympic sport. Obsession with just about any canon tends to breed resentment in some people.

        At the Liefeld board, given the topic, it’s to be expected.

      3. Not to be lewd, but f*ck ’em. You write comics that are unpredictable, addictive and distinctive — anyone who accuses you of lack of imagination is out of their bleeding gourd.

      4. I just read most of replies on Robot 6 and about 98% seemed to agree you on the whole thing. I didn’t read any comments there about you having “no imagaination” there.

        Did I miss a few?

      5. Peter, I’d hate to copy what Pj said, but I thought of it before I even read his post.
        …
        Screw’em.
        …
        You can’t please everyone.

      6. Something I forgot to ask:

        What fans wanted this? I don’t recall any talk of this during 90’s run of X-Force. Were these fans perceiving something in the stories in which the two characters appeared that wasn’t intended by the creators, or did they just pair them up out of whole cloth?

      7. I’m a fan of what you’ve done with Shatterstar and Rictor. Many “defenders of character” seem to hold blandness and a lack of change in high regard. There are very few gay characters in popular culture that are worth reading, despite claims from some that “they are everywhere” (!). Thanks for characters with traits that I can recognize and empathize with. Thanks for situations in which I truly become involved. That’s storytelling, and I appreciate it.

      8. I find the reactions on the Robot 6 Theme very strange… have they been the same during your Captain Marvel Run? I think, Moondragen and Marlo Chandler were a very nice and good idea… nice lesbian couple. I love Marlo Chandler and I hope that she is not the Red Hulk 😀 that would be a very stupid thing.
        But back to X-Factor… the last issues are very cool. Since the return of Layla Miller everything went well and shock came after cliffhanger. Very nice… and I hope we see much more of Rictor and Shatterstar, they are a nice couple. And the new Shatterstar looks much cooler, than the Shatterstar created by Rob Liefeld.

      9. Wow…that’s shocking…there’s a Leifeld board?…and people actually post on it?

  5. This is why I miss Dan Quayle. He would have been on fox news with the comic in hand saying “I wish I could show you this SHOCKING scene that is being pushed on our children, but I cannot offend our viewers, but people like Peter David must be stopped”

    Then sales of X -Factor could go through the roof.

    I’m running out right now and buying 40 copies of the issue and sending one to each of our Republican senators right now.

    Tll Jem and the Holograms make it to the big screen. Make mine a very gay marvel.

    1. What the hëll, Chris? We just had 185 political comments on the last thread and you have to bring it to this one too. Must everything be political. What is the freaking point of what you just said.

  6. Well don’t worry, I think you’re insanely imaginative (and yet not insane) and currently buy loads of your books.

    In fact I bought some yesterday, let me know what you do with the money.

    But seriously, fans are great for several things, spending money, keeping wikipedia and other wiki’s up to date, enjoying their hobbies and chatting with people about them……………….and bìŧçhìņg.

    We may all turn around in 10 years and find that the internet has turned into a fairly information technology into nothing but a bìŧçh-fëšŧ for fans with too much time,
    (if we’re not there already).

    And remember, the last time they listened to fans, robin died.

    So don’t give them what they want or what they ask for.
    Give them what they WANT to ASK for (but haven’t thought of yet).

  8. Well, I can understand why some fans would react badly.

    There are fans out there who strongly dislike ‘Fan Fiction'(like the kind that inspired “Potato Moon”), and especially dislike the type called ‘Slash’ fan fiction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slash_fiction

    Doing a Google search for “Rictor and Shatterstar” turns up seversl fan fiction pages devoted to this couple.

    The primary problem I think people have with Slash Fiction is that the writers will commonly take two characters that they like and put them together, even if there was no real indication in past stories that they were of that inclination (the earliest example probably being Kirk and Spock, which strangely enough may have been slightly alluded to in an episode of the animated series called “Mudds Passion” ^_^).

    By you writing this story you have made this ‘slash’ pairing official, which I’m sure makes half of the fans overjoyed and another half outraged ^_^

    Me, I have no problem with it (but then I can’t get over the Liefeld taint that Shatterstar has, anyway ^_^).

    1. even if there was no real indication in past stories that they were of that inclination
      .
      And yet, that is the case: there were indications with Shatterstar and Rictor, albeit years ago.
      .
      Even then, there is no way in hëll what PAD is writing with X-Factor compares to slash fiction: for this entire run, it has been hinted that Rictor has some interest in both sexes, so it’s not like this just popped up out of nowhere. Plus, this will serve a purpose, whereas slash fiction does not. 🙂
      .
      For the hëll of it: there is a great video on YouTube that somebody did with shots from Star Trek TOS of Kirk and Spock to NIN’s “Closer”. With material like what’s in the video, it’s easy to see how slash fiction came about. 🙂

      1. You have no idea.
        .
        Check out some of the Starsky & Hutch videos and you have to wonder if the writers/actors/directors weren’t all working on one big in-joke.
        .
        I know all this from my close proximity to a S&H slash writer.

    2. “…I can’t get over the Liefeld taint…”
      .
      MarvelFan, I was just thinking about eating dinner, then read that. With that image in my brain, I have lost my appetite.

  9. Pete, I don’t know what happened with the characters, since I don’t read comics any more. That being said…

    Seriously, you’re complaining about this?

    Look, after all these years, you should have learned by now that you can’t please everyone. I’m sure that the changes made were happily received by some, and hated by others… but you never hear from the people that are happy, you hear from the people that are upset. I can’t imagine that a specific group of fans asked you to make a certain change and those exact people are mad because you did precisely what they wanted.

    To phrase it as you have is an insult towards people like myself who have quit comics because Marvel (read – Joke Quesada) never listened to us and seemed to be working actively against everything we were hoping for out of the company. It reads as a sad attempt to label us as people that will never be happy, no matter what, just to salve your hurt feelings.

  10. Eh, there are also fans who’ve had a negative reaction to Supergirl getting red shorts under her skirt. Fans will complain about everything, and most of the reactions I’ve heard have been pretty positive.

    Meanwhile, I’ve just started reading X-Factor because I heard mention about the kiss. It’s mostly characters I don’t know very well or care much about on the off-set, so I haven’t been following it, but… now I read the issue, and now I’m interested!

  11. I think it very interesting what you did with Rictor and Shatterstar and hope of some nice scenes in the following Issues!

  12. Any fans from the Liefeld board accusing you of having no immagination is without either a sense of humour or irony.

  13. I was overjoyed to see Shatterstar show up (maybe we’ll finally get a whorthwhile meeting of Shatterstar and Longshot), but I was even more thrilled by the kiss. I’ll admit to having read all of the original X-Force tales as they came out and I got the relationship vibe off them. Plus, it’s also nice to see what is, as far as I know, the first bi mainstream comic character.

    1. Pretty sure Poison Ivy’s bi. Or at least has kissed Supergirl. Mikaal Tomas. Ice Maiden. Element Lad. Anima. Mystique, I think? Possibly more. None of them are hugely mainstream, except Ivy and Mystique, but they’re all from the big two.

      1. Shana Jean,
        I’m not up on my DC, so I missed a lot of those. I think Ivy’s just a tease. But Element Lad, really? Wow, I’ve slipped on my LoSH knowledge.
        And Anima, from the ’90s series? I didn’t know anyone remembered her.
        I totally forgot about Mystique, though I can’t recall if her relationship was ever explicitely stated or if it was always justed hinted. I didn’t read her series from a few years back.
        There is also something to be said about a herobeing used instead of a villain. If the villain is bi, or queer, or into kink, or whatever, well, that’s “acceptable” because they’re bad. But if a hero is, now that can upset some people.

  14. My first reaction on seeing the panel in question was, “Well, now! How long has this been going on? And were you two ever going to, like, tell anyone?” 🙂
    .
    So long as it’s organic to the characters, not tacked on for “thrills” (and knowing your writing, PAD, I doubt you’ve just tacked it on), I have no problem with a character being gay, straight, bi, or having strange fantasies about Bea Arthur. (I do draw the line at non-sentient species – if Cyke’s got a thing on the down-low with a Chihuahua, I really don’t want to know about it…)

    1. What about the Taco Bell Chihuahua? He’s clearly sentient (and looking for a good deal on some fast texmex food!).

      1. Are you kidding? What kind of sentient creature voluntarily seeks out Taco Bell???

  15. Y’know, when you started this job I think I was younger than your eldest daughter is now. And I turn 39 next week. 😉

    (When you started writing PPtSSM, two of my favorite “obscure” characters were Paladin and Jean DeWolff, so you pretty quickly got on both my good AND bad sides….)

  16. I know I’m going to sound like a fangirl here, but I always thought the Rictor-Shatterstar relationship was pretty well established even waaaaaaaaay back in X-Force. Seeing them kiss was like “WELL FINALLY” and a sigh of relief all at once. I don’t know whether people are blind, in denial, or just being homophobic about man-kissing.
    I think you as the writer have taken these characters where they need to go and, as for me, you’ve given me a new reason to buy a comic when I haven’t picked one up in years.

  17. I don’t understand.
    We get Rictor kissing Shatterstar “Because you demanded it !!!!” ?
    Am I missing a joke ?
    Because it seems to me the worse reason for writing something. And PAD writting for a bad reason just doesn’t compute.
    .
    A question about writing by the way. Have the Messiah Complex been the solution to the Lylla’s “We will get married” arc ?

    2. No one “demanded it,” but it was a storyline that quite a few people expressed interest in seeing explored. Why is that inherently a bad reason for doing something?
      .
      PAD

      1. It is a bad reason if it is only “fan service”.
        In my vision of the couple writer/reader, it’s the first who gets to tell the story. The reader just, well, reads, he doesn’t have to get into the creative process.
        For the moment, Shatterstar seems to be here only to be able to explore his relation with Rictor. Sure, he was introduced as a Cortex weapon but now it seems more than a trick to insert a subplot wanted by some fans than a current story plot development.
        Maybe I’m feeling this all wrong…
        And I’ve no doubt that you will do something with it, not just throw it for the sake of it.
        It’s just the “I did this because of fan suggestions” that seems to me very weird, like it is not really you wanting to tell this particular subplot.
        .
        And yes, Layla, of course.

  18. I still remember when you sent the Hulk into outer space, and the fans clamored for an appearance by Rocket Raccoon. You taught us right then what it means to give the fans what they ask for, but not exactly what they want….

  19. Eh, I wasn’t thrilled by the development, but I’m not going to quit reading over it. I agree with other posters that PAD would never write something just for the heck of it or shock value. As long as the sole purposes of the characters’ appearance in the book isn’t to be gay or bisexual (and of course it isn’t)I can’t complain too much, even if it’s not what I’d like to see.
    I thought the groundwork for this had been laid years ago, although I can’t quite remember how or cite any specific issues or scenes. It sort of reminded me of Northstar coming out, like, 90-some issues after it was made quite obvious he was gay.
    Loving X-Factor and loving not even trying to predict what’s happening next.

    1. Man, going back and reading what you typed works wonders. Of course it’s not exactly like the Northstar thing, because Northstar was, as I said, obvious. I just mean it was something that was out there, a little, and picked up on later.

  20. Fan: “What? They brought him back from the dead? No wonder comics suck. Nothing, not even death, means anything anymore.”
    Same Fan: “They killed him off?!? He was the best part of the book! They better bring him back somehow or I’m dropping the book.”
    .
    Fan: “Issues? Why is he writing stories dealing with real world issues? I want my entertainment to be an escape from the real world!”
    Same Fan: “Nah, I don’t read his work any more. It’s always the same thing. Hero of the book fights villain of the month and ultimately comes out on top. Wash, rinse, repeat. He never writes anything more than that.”
    .
    Fan: “I’m so tired of these unimaginative “writers” bringing back the same old bad guys over and over again. Where’s the suspense? I mean, if he beat the guy 500 times already; why should we believe that the 501st confrontation is going to end any differently?”
    Same Fan: “Dude! He has got to bring back Big Grey Horn to face Green Monster again. He’s always been one of GM’s classic rogues and they always had cool encounters. Why is he wasting our time with these lame new characters that we don’t care about?”
    .
    Fan: “Oh, look… The good guys won again despite insurmountable odds. Hey, why bother being creative and deviating from the cookie-cutter formula and being original for a change when you can just be lazy about it? “
    Same Fan: “That sucked! What kind of stupid garbage was that? He wrote himself into a corner and then decides to go for a shock ending (and a downer) where the heroes barely escape? Maybe if he weren’t so lazy he could have figured out a real ending for the story he was “writing” and asking us to pay good money for.”
    .
    Fan: “Jeez… So they don’t end up getting together YET AGAIN. How long are we supposed to be strong along where these two are concerned? Just get ’em together already.”
    Same Fan: “Well, the book is going down hill now. Why did they put those two together? Half the fun of the characters was them almost-but-not-quite getting together. Besides, no one in comics can write good relationships anyhow. Might as well just drop it now.”
    .
    Fan: “His writing sucks. He doesn’t know what fans want and just writes crap that he thinks looks all cool and impressive to his buddies.”
    Same Fan: “His writing sucks. His stories are all written to make fans happy. He isn’t good enough to come up with something clever or original so he just hacks it out month after month based on what the fanboards say.”
    .
    Fan: “Oh, look… Tough guy character who likes to fight and has an attitude. Yet another Wolverine rip off. Maybe if he had talent we might see something original for a change.”
    Same Fan: “Man, what this group needs is its own “Wolverine” character and then the book would really take off. “
    .
    Etc, etc, etc.
    .
    What did you really expect? All of the above (and loads more) is pretty much taken from comic book boards that I’ve seen all over the net. There’s always been a chunk of fandom out there that was never and will never be happy with anything that some creators do. The net just makes it easier for them complain about “it” whenever they want to.
    .
    It also seems to make it easier for them to create a chorus that makes their numbers look greater than they actually are. I love it when ten guys say the same thing on three different boards and, coincidently, all “ten” of them all use the same phrases, have the same spelling errors and sometimes have the same problems with coding their posts.
    .
    I only read a handful of comics these days, but even if I still had my 50 a month (or more) habit of old I would still not be chatting on 99.9% of the boards out there. Too many of those types of fans out there being trolls and wasting bandwidth.
    .
    I agree with PJ. Screw ’em. Write what you want to write. But then, that’s not exactly advice you really need to be told.

  21. Speaking as a fan with no prior knowledge of Rictor / Shatterstar hints/inklings/fanfic, I was intrigued by the development and am eager to see where it goes. I very much enjoy shock-value so long as it’s consequences (positive and negative) are explored. Anyone else here read Buffy Season 8? You may know what I’m refering to here…

  22. You’re obviously exploring this idea for a good idea and whether or not you explored the Rictor/Shatterstar angle, the naysayers would still be saying nay behind their computer screens, so pay them no mind. Also pay that run-on sentence no mind. It sounded better in my head.

    Also, since I’m probably too late to send in my email for the next issue of X-Factor, will the letter column be a recurring thing again, or did I just happen to miss a one-time deal?

  23. You’re obviously exploring this idea for a good reason and whether or not you explored the Rictor/Shatterstar angle, the naysayers would still be saying nay behind their computer screens, so pay them no mind. Also pay that run-on sentence no mind. It sounded better in my head.

    Also, since I’m probably too late to send in my email for the next issue of X-Factor, will the letter column be a recurring thing again, or did I just happen to miss a one-time deal?

  24. This situation reminds me of the many attempts that I made to get people to watch the HBO show OZ.

    I explained some of the plots, described the characters, and some were interested. Until the first man on man sex scene.

    Tolerance is easy to speak of but not so easy to actually practice.

    As for what the fans want, Spock said it best in Amok Time.
    “After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing, after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.”

    1. for every obscure character there are hardcore fans. This coming from a Jack Of Hearts fan. 😉

  26. Somebody pretty clever once said you can’t please everyone. The unspoken addendum to that is NOT, contrary to some people’s actions, if it doesn’t please you whine and complain about it all over the place.

  27. Well, you pleased me… and I’m feeling selfish, so I’ll ignore all of them and just stare happily at that page.

    Thanks Peter! 😀

  28. Not a big fan of the final panel, but you had to be blind to not see that bus coming a long way down the street. I have plenty of other reasons if I had wanted to complain about story lines in PAD’s writings. So far he has kept me coming back for more (haven’t figured out what that more is yet…waiting to find out where all this is headed).
    .
    Of course, I just figured PAD was stealing from LOST and there would be a big white flash and return Layla and Jamie from the future past perfect days of madness and the kiss never really happened in the first place, the reverend dupe would be the next “Billy Graham, and PAD would finally be back writing Spidey 2099 like he should have been all of these years.
    .
    Iowa Jim

  29. You know what I thought when I saw that panel? “Now I get that Liefeld era outfit, with the puffy sleeves and the long ponytail!”

    There’s only one good kind of retcon, and it’s the one where the reader thinks to himself: now it makes sense!

    So maybe you’ll lose the favor of the internet trolls, but at least you’re gaining a legion of fans that know how to appreciate true character development.

    Now wasn’t Longshot Shatterstar father? THAT kiss would have been weird!

  30. Y’know, when I first started this job…I had hair.

    See, and I always blamed Shana for that.

  31. The thing that really fractures me is those people who claim that I did the storyline in order to pìšš øff Rob…an assertion that no one made until after Rob declared that he couldn’t wait to try and undo it. Because the absolute worst thing that you can do is associate someone’s character with gayness, I guess.
    .
    PAD

    1. When I read some comments by the “pro Rob Liefeld faction”, it seems to me that killing off Shatterstar would be better, than make him gay. I don´t know, what is so diabolical of being gay? You can´t do nothing against this feeling, when you are gay…

      1. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it, but it usually implies a degree of emasculation, and that can certainly be troubling to fans of characters for whom masculinity is a strength of character (or in Shatterstar’s case, pretty much the only bit of characterization he had under Rob’s pen).

        Making him gay adds layers of characterization and complexity, but possibly at the cost of his previous character traits (well, trait). A gay character can still be extremely masculine (see: Midnighter), but it’s common in the real world that gay men act less masculine than their hetero counterparts.

      2. it’s common in the real world that gay men act less masculine than their hetero counterparts.

        Not really. Some gay men? Sure. But I also know some pretty feminine acting straight men, and very manly gay men.

      3. This is a reply to Shana:

        That’s why I wrote “it’s common.” It was a generalization of some, not a generalization of all.

      1. Rumor has it that Liefeld deleted the thread, but you know how rumors are on the net: if it sounds tasty, repeat it.

  32. You know, there are people out there who complain about the writings of Geoff Johns and Brian Michael Bendis. I know–crazy, right? And have you heard? Apparently J. Michael Straczynski is a “hack.” (And despite all the Internet hatred toward JMS, he still managed to make Thor a top 10 book.) And didn’t people complain about Hulk every time you took him into a new direction? And yet, correct me if I’m wrong, writing Hulk is where you enjoyed the most success in comics.

    At what point is it okay to stop worrying about negative fan reaction? It just seems like a waste of energy (and apparently hair).

  33. I remember when this story thread got dropped by a change in writers back when I was 18 or so.

    I also remember when you first referenced it and was really impressed that you picked it up and tied it into who Rictor is now.

    Frankly, I think it’s great and can’t wait to see where you take it. Since the book is selling out, I’ll be subscribing.

    Love your work,
    davidrslayton

  34. Pingback: Unblogged Bits for Thursday, 09 July 2009 | ***Dave Does the Blog

  35. Mr David;

    For what it’s worth, thank you. While I know you’ve not finished telling your story – or at least, we as readers haven’t gotten to see the ending yet – I think it’s a fantastic move to confirm Rictor’s bisexuality. Shatterstar’s always been a bit emotionally ambiguous, so it’s hard to gauge based on past appearances but I’m looking forward to seeing where you take these two next.

    Speaking as a bisexual male myself, I find it so refreshing to see a character such as Rictor, who isn’t a screaming, effeminate, camp stereotype, be into guys AND girls. I’m not exactly crying out for representation but it starts to feel a little odd when every non-straight character introduced recently has been either a buxom lesbian (appealling more to straight men than gay women, I imagine) or ‘fabulous’ gay men (Rawhide Kid, Obsidian’s sudden interest in musical theatre). In fact, Rictor being a bi male – if that is where you’re going with the story – makes him the only such character to my knowledge in mainstream comics. I applaud such developments.

    Once again, thank you, and I’m looking forward to the next issue.

  36. So, Rob can undo Gayness? This from a man who created a character named “Shaft?” I recall the jokes that ensued once the action figure debuted, because then the man on the street could get his hands on Rob Liefeld’s “Shaft.”

    Oh, and it ain’t the job doing that to your hair, PAD. It’s the kid(s). They also sneak into your bedroom at night and turn random hairs gray. At least, that’s what I’m convinced mine is doing.

    1. I recall the jokes that ensued once the action figure debuted, because then the man on the street could get his hands on Rob Liefeld’s “Shaft.”
      .
      Shut yo mouth!

      1. But we’re just talkin’ ’bout Rob Liefeld’s “Shaft”!

  37. PAD, so long as you’d like to please fans, I hear that a lot of them would be happy to see Thor lose a fight to the Hulk. What could go wrong with that?

  38. Peter, just wanted to write and thank you for making my favorite X-Men character (Shatterstar) cool and relevant again. Anybody who’s complaining clearly hasn’t picked up on all the bro-mance between Shattybuns and Ric that Fabian alluded to for _years_. Don’t let the haters get you down.

    You’ve inspired me to actually go out and buy your entire X-Factor run (which I’ve been meaning to read, but haven’t gotten around to yet). Thanks for many years of great comics. I can’t wait to see what you do next.

  39. Heh, I peeked at the X-Factor 46 preview on cbr’s Cup O Joe, and that panel where Rictor and Shaterstar are still kissing and Guido is looking away awkwardly is pretty funny.

  40. [As a gay dude] I thought it was really well handled. Sadly, I think the “gay thing” is going to be a lightening rod for controversy for years to come, sadly.

    I think a lot of fans are thrilled to have this whole Moonlighting “Will they or won’t they? Were they or weren’t they thing” seemingly cleared up. Was it just supposed to be whisper and innuendo, forever?

  41. Man… for real, haters to the left. That includes Liefeld, that douche. Just do your thing, man. your awesome, awesome thing.

  43. There was a Youngblood hardcover? And people bought it? Bwah ha ha!!!!

    I want you to know that as a gay fan, I really appreciate not only you building on the long abandoned Ric/Shatter subpolt but also the great things you have said on this site as well as on Liefed’s forum. I got to read alot of it before they banned me (I registered as pxlforge figuring HeroesNHunks might set off warning bells) so I sent a friend (you might remember him – CasperDude – he’s kind of a smart ášš and the amount of smoke that was being blown up Liefeld took him to a dark place) who sent me transcripts.

    You sir – ROCK!!! Love your work, love your words!

  44. Finally Shatterstar (“Spartan Warrior” as Liefield said) has some identity. Only Northstar assumed his sexuallity; Every day we see so many characters from the same ethnic, why not more then only 1 gay mutant.. actually thats what Peter David is trying to show, that there are more then 1 gay in the Mutant Marvel Universe, some assume ealier some have dificulty to do it and hide, afraid of prejudice; just like in real life. Now the “Spartan Warrior” has something modern to fight for..

  45. Finally Shatterstar (“Spartan Warrior” as Liefield said) has some identity. Only Northstar assumed his sexuallity; Every day we see so many characters from the same ethnic, why not more then only 1 gay mutant.. actually thats what Peter David is trying to show, that there are more then 1 gay in the Mutant Marvel Universe, some assume ealier some have dificulty to do it and hide, afraid of prejudice; just like in real life. Now the “Spartan Warrior” has something modern to fight for..

  46. PAD, did you get any grief from Moondragons same sex romance?

    On a more interesting note, might mutants have an issue with ANY mutant being gay at this point? With a total species number of 198 (or so) and dropping I would expect some backlash from mutants that would normally have been okay with homosexuality. A survival of the species thing.

    1. I’d be REALLLLLLY surprised if he got a lot.

      ’cause….”gay guys are icky, but the lesbians are hawt.”

    2. Hey, being gay doesn’t mean you can’t contribute to the gene pool… just can’t do it, y’know, the old-fashioned way.
      .
      I can just see Beast going around with little cups and whatever eggs are stored in…
      .
      Actually, come to think of it, given the rather dangerous lifestyle mutants lead (even those who just try to go about normal daily business) it’d be danged smart of him to do that for ALL of ’em.

      1. Kevin, eggs are stored in baskets. It is advisable to use multiple baskets, though I am not sure why.

  47. Until this weekend, I’d never picked up one issue of the new X-Factor (that’s why I was so late on the Shatterstar Rictor story). As a long long longtime reader of X-Force, I always figured the two were a couple. Suggestions on other boards that this story was forced are silly. Terrific work. Looking forward to more.

  48. Personally, even as a 13 year old I wasn’t keen on Shatterstar as a character. Rictor, yeah, but Shatterstar, no.
    When I see anything with any character I’m not keen on (Rahne, Guido, M, even) it has to be dámņ good to keep my attention or at least provide some interesting new depth.
    Shatterstar was a very shallow character, anything that was done to him before, I couldn’t care about or keep track of. This (and cutting the daft hair/ponytail) are developments. Who knows, maybe he’ll develop a character. Rictor did. Rahne did. M already had one, but PAD pushed all the right buttons to make her brilliantly annoying (the Quicksilver of the piece).
    Rob’s a person too, despite how terrible his art’s been during his career. Not one who spells all that well, but I can see it’s jarring that something’s happened like this. The same with Brand New Day for JMS, anything silly which happened once PAD left Incredible Hulk, the Seagle/Kelly run of X-Men. It’s the risk of working in a collaborative universe commanded by whoever’s writing it right now. Would Stan and Jack have approved of Emma & Scott? Would Claremont? Who knows or cares? It’s a great bit of plot development, even if it wasn’t the original intent for the characters.

    1. That is the thing. Rob drew the character, Fabian fleshed him out, which included the subtle possibility of his sexuality.

      In case I come off as a Liefeld basher, I respect the guy grabbing his moment in the sun and stretching it out as far as he did. His total body of work may be less than 100 books ever but most fans know his name.

      1. … if only because people keep bringing him up, mostly to bash him. I’m not convinced I’ve read a single Liefield comic, but I know his name…

  49. Hey, Peter, just want to say I support whatever you want to write. Write for the story. Whatever that dictates, let it happen. Whether that’s having Shatterstar and Rictor kiss, or Strong Guy completing his giant baby look and sporting diapers, that’s fine with me!

    You do great work, you keep it interesting, and you move characters and story forward, which is more than most books featuring superheroes, so kudos to you, sir.

    Here’s to you, and much more fun and adventure in X-Factor and beyond!

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