So apparently Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the self-professed mastermind of the 9/11 attacks, will not be tried in civilian court but instead be handed over the military.
Since he’s a radical, allow me to put forth a radical idea. Stop arguing about where to try him. Just bring him to Ground Zero and release him. A single police car which drives up, drops him off and drives away. And be sure to publicize well in advance exactly when he will be released. Exact time and day. Put it on the front page of the Daily News, the Post, and the Times.
I’m pretty sure justice will be served in short order.
PAD
• 
Bloodthirsty Liberal.
(This being a kind of sarcastic/ironic post intended as humorous.)
Yes, and then to top it all off, let’s have our allies abandon us because we have betrayed our ideals that we speak about, that we are better than KSM and his ilk. And just ’cause we’re not done, let’s let China commit human rights abuses, because we sure as hëll can’t marginalize China’s “But the Americans do it. Hypocrites!”
whoa… lynching never goes out of style. . And justice is just another name for vengeance. Brutal death has allways proven an effective deterrent for future criminals. Specially suicide terrorists. Those guys seem to hate it.
.
I guess it’s all right. After all, if you feel you or yours have been wronged you have the right to do anything you want. Because, you know, beign a victim confers you a special kind of wisdom and moral ground.
On the plus side, you could probably put a dent in the national debt by selling ringside seats.
I’m hoping that PAD was being ironic in the subject of this topic. Yes, the bloodlust for this man is very strong — but we are a nation of laws. (And not just us: Even after all Saddam Hussein did to his people, they tried him, found him guilty, then executed him; they didn’t just let a mob kill him in the streets.)
I wonder about the legal issues that’ll come up during his trial. On the one hand, he has stated, often and in public, that he was the mastermind behind the 9/11 attacks. On the other hand, he was also illegally waterboarded, which is a violation of his rights that could affect the rest of his trial. So while I don’t see him walking away free and clear, I wonder if our own laws will be stretched or ignored during the trial.
I think PAD’s point was that if they are having the trial in a military court instead of a civil court they might as well throw him to a lynch mob. (No pun intended James)
I was going for Swiftian, actually.
.
PAD
I tried to read it that way last night, twice, and wasn’t able to. But if you say so I stand by your version, because it’s more in accordance to the image I have of you.
.
Satire is a dangerous business in the internet. Someone I know satirized about holocaust deniers on twitter a few weeks ago and lost his job in a big newspapers because the new owners did’nt understand the satire.
Someone I know satirized about holocaust deniers on twitter a few weeks ago and lost his job in a big newspapers because the new owners did’nt understand the satire.
.
That’s insane. Who worries about upsetting the sensibilities of Holocaust deniers? Or are you saying that he posted something satirical in the style of a denier and the bosses couldn’t discern that?
.
PAD
He made a serie of satirical tweets in the style of conspiracy loonies and deniers, to celebrate his 50.000th follower. The best one was about the bullet that killed JFK having not landed yet. But the one about the holocaust was blown out of proportion and when the whole ruckus seeped into mainstream media, the new owners of the newspaper he colaborated with did’nt find it funny. Having to explain to them that it was all satire did’nt help either. He got fired and had to rewrite a public apology three times under threat of becoming the nespaper new punching bag. Since he is a film director (only one movie so far but an Oscar nominee for short film), he had to because he couldnt afford having that rag against him. Pretty nasty but enlightening stuff.
.
Uh…my mistake then.
The Internet is where satire goes to die. If I, making only cosmetic changes, posted “The Modest Proposal” there would be people who’d never read the original expressing outrage.
.
PAD
For my part, sorry I didn’t get the satirical intent.
I was trying to remember why this post sounded like something PAD would say and today it hit me. This is similar to Arthur Pendragon’s stand on crime on PAD’s Knight Life.
I always thought if we ever caught Bin Laden, we should turn him over to the Mossad.
.
They would keep him alive as long as possible.
.
TAC
I’ve always said that the reason we never caught Bin Laden was because we can’t win here no matter what.
.
If we put him in jail to rot, we get people committing more terrorist acts demanding his release. If we execute him, he becomes a martyr and we get more violence from that.
.
The best possible course available to us unfortunately is the one we’re taking, which is to pretend to hunt for him while hoping he dies in his own filth in a cave somewhere.
Peter David: Just bring him to Ground Zero and release him. I’m pretty sure justice will be served in short order.
Luigi Novi: So you’re okay if someone is executed, as long as it’s done in ad hoc fashion by a mob, and not the state????? 🙂
I know this was just meant to be funny. However, I think mob justice may really be preferable to a military court. There’s probably less chance of setting precedent.
DOES NO ONE GET IRONY ANY MORE?!?!?
.
I love it, Mr. David. Let’s staple a pig to him at the same time, so he’ll know what Allah thinks of him.
.
BUT WAIT! What if he takes that opportunity to go two blocks and build that mosque on the site of the 9/11 tragedy? According to what SOME PEOPLE say, that would probably take about ten minutes, what with all those terrorists and radicals waiting for a leader, and that Muslim president funding this out of his own terrorist bank account… and then he’d be safe in a Muslim sanctuary right in the heart of America!
.
Sigh. PAD, please keep up the good work. Some of us get you, man.
.
I remain,
Eric L. Sofer
x<]:o){
The Bad Clown…
To paraphrase from Before Dishonor: It’s Peter David. I wasn’t ruling anything out.
I would be concerned that the mob scene would ruin all the great progress that’s been made to rebuild the towers in the last 10 years.
I know. I donated a LOT to see that happen and so I could be at the opening ceremony and they still don’t have their act together. Count me as especially annoyed.
Ðámņìŧ, PAD, stop channelin’ John Byrne! It’s creepy. Ya’s suppose to be the white hat.
Yeah, but John would mean it.
.
By the way, is it just my imagination, or has John Byrne aged into Ego the Living Planet?
.
PAD
How so?
I just think the older he’s gotten, the more he looks like him.
.
PAD
What about releasing him near just south and west of Washington DC? Say near the intersection of I-385 and S. Washington Blvd.
That way Khalid Sheikh Mohammed can meet his 72 Virginians upclose and personal.
Y’know, that’s an old joke, and yet somehow I never get tired of it.
.
PAD
I’m pretty sure justice will be served in short order.
.
No, actually not.
.
I get the sentiment behind the idea. I remember you once commenting that if someone did anything unspeakable to one of your daughters you’d like 10 minutes alone in a room with them and a baseball bat. I recall you also said that’s exactly why you shouldn’t be put in charge of their punishment.
Even a signed confession doesn’t make someone guilty under the law. A finding of guilt or innocence is required by a court, and any confession must be reviewed and the accused called to confirm it on the record. It doesn’t matter how guilty we think he is, there has to be a proper trial. If we can’t win against Al Queda on the battlefield of our vaunted principles, then they’ve won. This is as much a battle about integrity and honor as ideology and central to their beef with us is that we don’t have any. The fence-sitting masses are watching to see what we do and to date, we haven’t done so well.
The rest of the world hasn’t done so well either by constantly abusing the notions of law and engaging in constant Godwin level overreaching, wanting to see America tried for just about anything we do while turning a blind eye to their own governments’ realpolitik operations. We should have had a proper and respectable world court by now, but that’s not happening in a world where the UN puts tyrants and despots on human rights commissions, and they compare the poor in America, arguably the wealthiest poor people on the planet, to the multigenerational underclasses of the third world and ignore their governments’ continued enforcement of their plight.
In the end, it doesn’t matter what the rest of the world is doing. All that matters is that it is as John Warfin said in Buckaroo Banzai. “Character is what you are in the dark.” What did we really know was right and wrong, and what did we do, knowing it?
“Even a signed confession doesn’t make someone guilty under the law.” True, but it goes a long way towards obtaining that guilty verdict in court, even when, as in a recent terrorism case, it was obtained under conditions which would have made Stalin proud.
Interesting idea, what if you were the only person notified, say about 10 minutes before, what would be the outcome?
I wonder if Daredevil would cajole Spider-Man to help him rescue Khalid Sheikh Mohammed from a bloodthirsty NYC mob…
Here’s another idea. Why not hand over all the American soldiers who’ve murdered innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan to the families of their victims.
Then you’d see some real justice.
I know most of the country will hate me for this, but I would like to see them tried in Iraqi and Afghan courts.
What sense would this make, Mary? Wait, you’re talking about U.S. soldiers and not KSM? Really? Really? Really?!!!
As long as they aren’t teenage girls who were raped by older men and have a good chance of being stoned to death for the crime of enticing said men away from the One true path, I’m sure they’ll be fine. Jesus folks, get a grip. What do you stand for?
.
All this angst is just to cover up the reality that the attorney General once called anything less than a civil trial unconstitutional and a violation of everything we stand for…and now he has to backtrack. If he had the courage of his conviction…or if those conviction were motivated by something more than the politics of the moment–he would resign rather than carry out orders he felt violated his oath of office. But the quality of politicians we have today (on both sides) makes that kind of action quaint and old fashioned, something that people did in other, less, um, pragmatic times.
I know most of the country will hate me for this, but I would like to see them tried in Iraqi and Afghan courts.
.
Okay, but first we have to prosecute “the greatest generation” in Germany and Japan for all those bombs they dropped.
That wouldn’t be justice but retribution.
Richard,
Do you have a list of all the soldiers who have, according to you, “murdered innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan or do you just prefer to self-righteously hate America and it’s soldiers and military?
You must have been overjoyed when our boys were dragged through the streets of Somalia.
Wow Peter – this is an awesome group of self hating Americans you’ve got following you.
I’m sure you are very proud of that.
I’m proud that I live in a country where people feel that they can speak their mind without being dragged off into the night for doing so.
.
PAD
As far as we know…
“Self hating Americans”. “self-righteously hate America”.
.
Jesus jumping Christ, the patriotic chest-thumpers are getting ready to come out in full force now.
.
For one, don’t assume that everybody here is American. Two, just because a soldier is American doesn’t make them automatically incapable of crimes such as the murder of innocents.
.
Or are some of you actually naive enough to think the buck actually stopped at, say, the torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib?
.
Oh, wait, it didn’t:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings
Wow. One incident in an eight year war. I’m sooo impressed by your example.
.
This thread was about a man who it is reasonably certain masterminded the death of 3,000 Americans and you and the other like-minded lemmings here can’t wait to jump in and say, “See! America does bad things to!”
.
And I’ll repeat, if anyone here has a list of ALL the U.S. soldiers who have been tried and convicted – hëll, even accused – of murdering Iraqi citizens in cold blood, I would like to see it.
.
Otherwise, it’s the same warped moral relativism, again and again and again…
You asked for an example, I gave it. You don’t get to bìŧçh and whine that you don’t like that said examples actually exist.
.
As for lemmings, I wouldn’t talk, seeing your history of repeating every right-wing talking point known to man.
.
And yes, America DOES do bad things. Like say that the REAL mastermind of 9/11, bin Laden, is “no longer important”. But I don’t see you having a hissy fit with Bush over that. Relativism, and hypocrisy, indeed.
Craig,
“You asked for an example, I gave it. You don’t get to bìŧçh and whine that you don’t like that said examples actually exist.”
.
First of all, I didn’t bìŧçh and whine. i was being sarcastic because your “example” is so, so sad and reflective of your need to, as i said, get more in a lather over what America does than actually agree that a man who helped cause 3,000 death on our soil should get the justice he deserves. Your logic there is pathetic and would ne laughable if it weren’t so tragic.
.
And I don’t get to bìŧçh and whine? Sure i do. it’s my Constitutional right to do so. Or are Constitutional rights only reserved for hardcore killers, terrorists and peddlers of pørņ?
.
“As for lemmings, I wouldn’t talk, seeing your history of repeating every right-wing talking point known to man.”
.
You really can’t think of anything new to say. Instead of illustrating and defending your defenseless accusation, you attack. feebly. But you attack.
.
“And yes, America DOES do bad things”
.
No. Some American PEOPLE do bad things. The fact that you are more up in arms about this than not only 9/11, but brutal regimes like Sierra Leone and truly tragic situations like Sudan, Rwanda, Uganda, etc. is beyond belief.
.
“Like say that the REAL mastermind of 9/11, bin Laden, is “no longer important”. But I don’t see you having a hissy fit with Bush over that. Relativism, and hypocrisy, indeed.”
.
So you would rather be mad at Bush for saying he “don’t really think about him much” – if you’re going to use a quote to bash Bush, it should at least be accurate – than one of the people that actually carried it out? And his words are on par with – what? The Bataan Death March? An actual terrorist? His SAYING that is an example of America DOING BAD THINGS? Funny thing is, if he did kill Osama, you would use that as an example that “America kills people too”.
.
You really are a deranged person who seemingly loathes his country and bashes it with incompetent arguments and asinine analogies.
You really can’t think of anything new to say. Instead of illustrating and defending your defenseless accusation, you attack. feebly. But you attack.
.
You really are a deranged person who seemingly loathes his country and bashes it with incompetent arguments and asinine analogies.
.
Again, the irony of your statements knows no bounds.
.
Seek help, Jerome, before you hurt yourself, or worse, somebody else.
“No. Some American PEOPLE do bad things.”
Sorry, when it has official government sanction (as in the Haliburton contracts in Iraq or the unprovoked invasion of Grenada, or … the list goes on), then, yes, it is “America does bad things.”
Sorry, when it has official government sanction (as in the Haliburton contracts in Iraq or the unprovoked invasion of Grenada, or … the list goes on)
.
Grenada? Really? If reversing a coup where some Marxists overthrew and assassinated other Marxists is the second-worst example you can come up with, we’re doing pretty well.
.
Plus, purely as a question of semantics, Grenada was invaded by all four US armed services. I certainly hope it had “official government sanction.”
David – The Grenada invasion has been referred to as the worst military blunder of all time because it was an invasion that had no reason for being. Every excuse the government gave turned out to be wrong or otherwise false. Even the cso-called ‘hostages’ were surprised at being ‘rescued’ as they hadn’t realized they needed any rescuing. Something stronger? Nagasaki. Knowing Japan as I do, Hiroshima was needed. But Nagasaki? That was to send a message to Stalin. If that’s not evil, I don’t know what is.
So, I spend the better part of 10 years (including on this blog) arguing in favor of the war in Afghanistan and how we need to get bin Laden. About how the war in Iraq was a complete çlûšŧërfûçk that was not only nothing more than Bush wanting his little war of retribution on Saddam Hussein, but it proved we no longer cared about bin Laden and Afghanistan and that this was a mistake.
.
Yet, because I refuse to wrap myself in the flag 24/7 (“How DARE you think soldiers should face local justice for murdering people on foreign soil!”), I apparently hate America and go out of my way to prove it.
.
I would find that funny if it weren’t so downright pathetic on the part of those who make such an argument. If it weren’t so downright depressing that we have to put up with such stupidity by people who’s only goal is drag down the intelligence of the human race.
Well, if you are willing to point out the bad that our troops and others in our Government’s employ does, you DO hate America.
.
It’s a fact. I know this because the Conservative Agenda repeats this over and over.
.
And if it’s said at least three times, it has t be true.
.
Right?
.
TAC
Has anybody announced a remake of Beetlejuice yet?
.
“Activist judge! Activist judge! Activist judge!”
The “self-hating Americans” are what makes America truly great. A country that can recognize its errors is a country that is able to evolve. I don’t believe you can aspire to be moral without a conscience.
.
Contrast to the Chinese, the Iranians, or every other dictatorship. They all have unconditional love for the glory that is their country (at least ostensibly), and the voices of dissent live in exile, prison, or don’t live at all.
.
It’s a mystery to me why the Conservatives are always the ones that want the West to be more like the enemies they claim to hate.
It is not that conservatives want the West to be more like their enemies in style, it is that liberals insist on providing comfort and succour to the enemies of your nation, while apologizing for existing
Or bowing to Saudi kings in an obsequious way
Or abandoning allies with a dismissive ‘we have no special relation’, giving them a crappy gift and eager willingness to sit and chat with evil.