Several young Jewish kids were attacked by ten angry poorly educated Christians (yes, their religion is relevant as is their lack of education; you’ll see why) on the subway the other day. The Jewish kids were returning from a Chanukah celebration and were carrying a menorah. The Christian guys (one of whom has a Myspace page depicting him holding a gun to his girlfriend’s head; what a riot) wished the Jewish kids a Merry Christmas. Apparently they thought they were being sarcastic and were under the impression the Jewish kids would feel duly insulted. Instead the Jewish kids wished them a happy Chanukah right back. The Christians took offense, angrily declaring that the Jews had killed their Savior (see, that’s where the religion is relevant) on Chanukah (that’s where the lack of education is relevant) and that the Jewish kids were going to go straight to hëll. Apparently endeavoring to give them a preview, one of them spat on one of the Jewish kids. The Jewish kid calmly declared intent to, like Jesus, turn the other cheek. Whereupon the Christian guys attacked.
And who stepped in to intervene? A Muslim guy, who got two black eyes for his trouble.
Fortunately police were present at the next stop to arrest the attackers, one of whom was already slated to begin a six month jail stay in January for beating up a black guy in 2005.
No word from the MTA as to where hate crimes and assaults rank in desireability in comparison to pole dancers.
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You know, the last thing we want on our subways are Jews and Muslims uniting in brotherhood. Can’t the MTA do anything about this?
And to watch Fox News, you’d think there’s no reason at all for instances of raging anti-Christian sentiment in this country. Violence goes both ways, folks. It’s really sad, but, one would hope, fixable. I just don’t see any efforts to fix it. So depressing.
How do you teach respect? How do you teach, if not acceptance, at least tolerance? I have three children and I am scared as hëll (sorry, pun intended) at the current culture trends in American society.
Well, that’s religion for ya.
Whats sad is I know many educated christians that feel the same way.
Peter, can you let us know where to find this news item? I’ve been googling variations on “news christian mta new york” and not finding it. I’d love to read & forward the article.
Thanks.
“And to watch Fox News, you’d think there’s no reason at all for instances of raging anti-Christian sentiment in this country.”
“Well, that’s religion for ya.”
I think what’s unfortunate about situations like this is that “Christians” like this seem to have the biggest voice in our society. Based on this story, I’d say there’s nothing Christ-like about these individuals, and the Christians that I know certainly are nothing like this. Yet, this stigma is applied to me and my friends despite me completely disagreeing with with the conduct of these people on the subway.
If the pole dancers had been present, this whole situation would have been avoided.
And so if Jesus died during Chanukah, was he born on Good Friday?
I’m confused… so which one of them was gyrating on poles?
🙂
Well it’s the Jewish kids own fault. By saying something other than “Merry Christmas” they were engaging in the War On Christmas ™. Acknowledging any holiday other than Christmas is an attack on Christmas and the Christians were defending themselves against a viscious attack.
I had sarcasm tages at each end of my previous post, which didn’t post.
Hmmm. It is scary to think that people like that do exist in our society.
[quote]I have three children and I am scared as hëll (sorry, pun intended) at the current culture trends in American society.[/quote]
Turn off your TV, read a history book. The world today isn’t a scarier place than it was 50 years ago, or 100 years ago… it’s just that a person in Iowa or Utah or Singapore or Berlin wouldn’t have heard about racial violence in the subway in NYC 50 years ago. Most of the people in NYC wouldn’t’ve heard about it.
I have two kids of my own, I understand where you’re coming from, but statistics say crime is DOWN, even though we as a culture are more afraid than ever. Did you go out and play all day away from home as a kid, like I did? Did you walk 2-3 miles to school on your own? I did, and the notion of that scares me with my own kids, which is DUMB, ’cause the chances of something happening to them is LOWER than it was for me. But it’ll happen to some kid, somewhere in the world, and we’ll hear about it and personalize it and fear even more for our own kids. 🙁
This summer I turned off my satellite dish, started buying TV shows off iTunes, and read the news selectively instead of being buried under the drama and the sensationalism… and it’s helping, little by little. 🙂
It’s really sad and monumentally disgusting. It’s conduct of this sort that makes a lot of people sneer at Christianity as a whole, when these lackwits are about as “Christian” as Charlie Manson.
Of course, I agree that the presence of pole-dancers would have almost certainly prevented this. It’s tough to argue about holiday greetings with someone twirling half-naked around a pole only a few yards away.
Why exactly was a kid who was about to go to jail for a previous crime allowed to be out in public? Seems like a recipe for disaster–what’s his incentive NOT to be the thug he obviously is.
Well, at least they’ll be able to find him easily enough for his next trial.
Peter, can you let us know where to find this news item? I’ve been googling variations on “news christian mta new york” and not finding it. I’d love to read & forward the article.
I googled “subway” and “jewish” and got some good hits:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iWCJyvT0BKYliSAruZ1wUdCJlp8QD8TFI1L82
The lawyer for the “gentleman” who will doubtlessly be spending even more time in jail now claims that his client could not possibly be guilty of this because his mom was Jewish. Not a great defense but you works with what you gots.+
There are those who might be tempted to say “let’s just ban religion”, but the real culprits – stupidity and ignorance – are a lot harder to deal with.
On that note, I wish you all a
Happy Christmas
Merry New Year
Cheerful Chanukah
(Insert preferred ethnic greeting)
and so forth.
The Daily News had the best coverage of the whole affair
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2007/12/12/2007-12-12_muslim_hero_breaks_up_train_beating-1.html
Thanks, Kath. My favorite bit from the Daily News article:
“One of the Jewish victims, Walter Adler, expressed amazement that Askari took the risk to try to help.
“That a random Muslim kid helped some Jewish kids, that’s what’s positive about New York,” said Adler, 23, who suffered a broken nose and required four stitches to close a lip wound.”
Applause also to the transit cops who acted quickly and swiftly, and apprehended all ten assailants.
Start the Law & Order clock on this one, too. As long as they don’t combine it with the pole dancers…
There’s only one reason I hate this time of year and this would be it. I’ve been around too many people who froth at the mouth because December should be dedicated to Jesus Christ and nobody else, regardless how many world holidays have occurred in December or far longer.
Not that bìŧçhìņg about the Season’s Greetings is equal to the behavior of these idiots… I should have said the ignorance at this time of year towards religion and tolerance is the single reason I tend to hate the season.
Something like that.
I’m glad nobody was hurt beyond healing.
And a happy Eid to the good Samaritan (is that a weird wish in this case?)
And Christians who complain about how a few idiots like these give all Christians a bad name should stop and take note how a few terrorists have given all Muslims a bad name…. anyone who uses violence in support of their religion gets painted with the same brush in my sketchbook.
Yipes, talk about the rotten apples in the barrel. Can you imagine how they would have reacted if someone reminded them that Jesus was Jewish? So much for the Peace and Joy of the season…
Kind of makes me understand why I was described at a Yule (pagan holiday) party as “a Catholic, but one of the good ones.”
There is a chance that religion was just and excuse. It could have been a guy with the “wrong” sports team cap and this guy may have picked a fight with him. In other words: he may have been a bully looking for an excuse to pick on someone. I knew guys like that back in high school.
Playing devil’s advocate (ironic, given this discussion is about violence and religion — and I’m an Agnostic), this fighting is not about Christians or Christianity. There are millions and millions of Christians who are good people, tolerant of others’ differences and supporting the community through their lives and charity work. Unfortunately, moderate and good people don’t make for good news: The violent and the extreme do. So you’ll see a lot more news stories with Christians doing horrible things or screaming and shouting than you will about Christians behaving, well, like Christians.
Indicentally, I’ve heard this “the Jews killed Jesus” lots of times. Unless I’m mistaken, according to the Bible Jesus was put to death by Caesar and the Jews only opted not to release him. Shouldn’t the ignorant be blaming the Romans (or, going to today, the Italians) for killing Jesus? Or did I miss something?
Wait the Romans killed Jesus?
And the Vatican is situated in Rome.
Therefore: THE CAATHOLICS KILLED JESUS!!!!!!
Wait’ll I tell Father Dan at mass. It’s gonna be a cruel, cruel sunday.
Oh man, this sounds like the beginning of a really bad “Walks Into A Bar” joke.
*shakes head* I’m so glad I’m an atheist.
The lawyer for the “gentleman” who will doubtlessly be spending even more time in jail now claims that his client could not possibly be guilty of this because his mom was Jewish.
So, the Jesus defense, then?
TWL
*shakes head* I’m so glad I’m an atheist.
Moi aussi.
Favorite exchange on the topic at one of my previous schools:
Me: [something relevant to the already tangential conversation, that happens to include the fact that I’m an atheist]
Student: Wait — you’re an atheist?
Me: Swear to God. Oh … wait …
TWL
This is mostly in reply to Matt- I’m a non-observant Jew who’s grown up in heavily Christian cities, including one in the deep South which was an experience all its own and then Chaska, MN, which is predominately Lutheran and filled with people who are anti-Semitic by default and lack of education. The result is, most of my friends are Christian, practicing and sincere. Everyone on my Mom’s side of the family is Christian, which isn’t… actually all that good for Christianity’s image, but the point is, I, personally?, in no way think this is an accurate representation of Christians. Accordingly, I attach no stigma. I think most people with half a brain realize that this isn’t an accurate representation of most of their friends and neighbors. But these people are Christians. That’s one of the faces of Christianity- an unfortunate one, but one that has not been improminent throughout centuries. And violence begets violence- with the shooting at the mission recently, I’m not surprised we’re now getting news stories like this. Disheartened and saddened, but not surprised.
What media outlets and genuine Christians need to understand, I think, is that Christianity had a grip on the world for a very long time and a lot of bad things were done in its name, which has affected the modern view of the religion. Not a problem exclusive to Christianity by any means, but because of its importance and numbers, a problem with more wide spread and visible consequences. Non-Christians have had to develop all manner of coping mechanisms and, unfortunately, tools for retaliation and survival, and this increasing trend toward Secularism is part of it and, I tend to think, part of what’s spurring a lot of the recent conflict.
And that makes me a sad panda.
Boy, where are the Three Wise Men when you need ’em? 🙁
But he’s hoping no one finds out he was an immaculate conception.
Between this incident and the one in Baltimore where a homeless white woman was beaten by a gang of black youths, and keeping in mind that it’s probably only the racial angles that made these news (as opposed to the ordinary everyday beatings and muggings that go unnoticed),the message seems to be: stay off of mass transit.
Although I’ll bet when we see the arrest records of these thugs the real lesson will be to stop giving these idiots second, third, and nineteenth chances.
But he’s hoping no one finds out he was an immaculate conception
A common misconception (zing!). Jesus was the virgin birth. Mary was the immaculate conception.
Speaking of religious (lack of) education. Check out what “Balducci’s Food Lover’s Market” suggests might be “Delicious for Chanukah”:http://nancykayshapiro.livejournal.com/35633.html?thread=54321
Merriam-Webster’s treats “embryo” and “fetus” as synonyms for “conception.”
This does prove something though.No matter what the religion you follow it doesnt mean a dámņ thing if you dont actually practice the principles it was based on in your life.
The so called “Christians” in this attack were hardly behaving in a manner Jesus would approve of.Also I give a lot of credit to the young Muslim who intervened in the attack.I am sure he didnt see the religions of the players involved he just saw something that was clearly wrong and acted in a manner he felt was in accordance with his personal beliefs.
As far as the attacker who was on the streets while awaiting sentencing.Thats our legal system for you though it is nice to see he has the full set of hates…black,jewish,etc. I am sure he has or will find time to attack someone of gay ,asian or some other diversity before all is said and done .
ASSCLOWN!
>I give a lot of credit to the young Muslim who intervened in the attack.I am sure he didnt see the religions of the players involved he just saw something that was clearly wrong and acted in a manner he felt was in accordance with his personal beliefs.
Actually the story said the jewish kids (young men?) were carrying a menora, so he WOULD have seen the religion of at least one set of players, which makes his actions all the more impressive. (Jews vs. Muslims something-or-other going on over in the middle east.)
Merriam-Webster’s treats “embryo” and “fetus” as synonyms for “conception.”
Yes. Yes it does.
Anyhoo, the immaculate conception is the doctrine that Mary was born without any stain of sin. The virgin birth is the doctrine that Jesus was born of a virgin. The two are commonly confused as being one and the same and both referring to Jesus.
Just a heads up for those who want to get their analogies correct.
Well, for whatever it’s worth, I apologize on behalf of true Christians everywhere for the actions of these mindless buffoons who claim the name ‘Christian’ but don’t live up to it. At the very least I apologize for the Christians, like me, who acknowledge our Jewish friends as God’s Chosen People, and would never disparage the Jewish people for any reason whatsoever; I publicly acknowledge that that’s just wrong. I am deeply ashamed of what those idiots on the subway did.
How nice for the assailant you won’t infer his Christian bias from his immaculate conception.
How nice for the assailant you won’t infer his Christian bias from his immaculate conception.
Sorry, you lost me.
Indicentally, I’ve heard this “the Jews killed Jesus” lots of times. Unless I’m mistaken, according to the Bible Jesus was put to death by Caesar and the Jews only opted not to release him. Shouldn’t the ignorant be blaming the Romans (or, going to today, the Italians) for killing Jesus? Or did I miss something?
I prefer Sarah Silverman’s take:
“Everybody blames the Jews for killing Christ, and then the Jews try to pass it off on the Romans. I’m one of the few people that believe it was the blacks.”
Kind of makes me understand why I was described at a Yule (pagan holiday) party as “a Catholic, but one of the good ones.”
I had a similar experience but was the qualifier was “but not an áššhølë.”
So idiots and thugs used religion as an excuse to be idiots and thugs. What’s new? If it hadn’t been religion, they’d have found a different excuse for it. And the fact that they claim to be Christian was actually irrelevant in the same way that many religious terrorists of all stripes claim to be “religious” to excuse their behavior. They’re thugs, idiots and, sometimes, killers and that’s all. The religious aspect was just their rationalization for why they’re “right” and “justified” in their actions. It’s not the religion that’s the problem here; it’s the áššhølëš who declared it their cause.
JamesLynch: “Shouldn’t the ignorant be blaming the Romans (or, going to today, the Italians) for killing Jesus?”
Yeah, but who wants to go pick a fight with the mob?
Bill, you’re a science teacher. You know that scientists have only ever found one naturally formed Earthly substance that’s ten times as dense as diamond and you’re about to argue theology with it. You’ve got history, dogmatic law and the facts on your side. It has Merriam-Webster’s, an inability to comprehend simple concepts and its own super density on its side. We all know that this is just going to go on for dozens of posts where it shows a complete inability to admit error or to grasp simple concepts that it simply refuses to grasp for density’s sake. Why make yourself suffer? Why not just cut to the chase and review one of your zombie flicks now? We’ll all be happier in the end.
I’m just demonstrating a paganistic indifference, Bill. You’re just catching me while I’m at work. Thank you for the correction.
Sasha: “I prefer Sarah Silverman’s take:
“Everybody blames the Jews for killing Christ, and then the Jews try to pass it off on the Romans. I’m one of the few people that believe it was the blacks.””
I’ve long had a theory that everything involving Jesus was set up by aliens. They wouldn’t even need advanced technology, we can fake immaculate conception today just by drugging a girl unconscious and taking her to a fertility clinic for artificial insemination. Aliens could probably pull that off in an afternoon.
Jerry Chandler,
I was going to make an analogy to gazing into the Abyss, but I couldn’t have done it with anywhere near as much rhetorical style. I yield the floor to you.
Well the Bible describes God as being omniscient and omnipotent, and it says that Jesus knew full well what fate awaited him in Jerusalem and even asked God to spare him the suffering. Surely, that means that Jesus was killed by God, no? I’d love to see those idiot kids try to beat HIM up.