Several young Jewish kids were attacked by ten angry poorly educated Christians (yes, their religion is relevant as is their lack of education; you’ll see why) on the subway the other day. The Jewish kids were returning from a Chanukah celebration and were carrying a menorah. The Christian guys (one of whom has a Myspace page depicting him holding a gun to his girlfriend’s head; what a riot) wished the Jewish kids a Merry Christmas. Apparently they thought they were being sarcastic and were under the impression the Jewish kids would feel duly insulted. Instead the Jewish kids wished them a happy Chanukah right back. The Christians took offense, angrily declaring that the Jews had killed their Savior (see, that’s where the religion is relevant) on Chanukah (that’s where the lack of education is relevant) and that the Jewish kids were going to go straight to hëll. Apparently endeavoring to give them a preview, one of them spat on one of the Jewish kids. The Jewish kid calmly declared intent to, like Jesus, turn the other cheek. Whereupon the Christian guys attacked.
And who stepped in to intervene? A Muslim guy, who got two black eyes for his trouble.
Fortunately police were present at the next stop to arrest the attackers, one of whom was already slated to begin a six month jail stay in January for beating up a black guy in 2005.
No word from the MTA as to where hate crimes and assaults rank in desireability in comparison to pole dancers.
PAD
• 
Ðámņ, Ðámņ, dámņ, dámņ and dámņ!
I just got an email alert from creatures & Crooks Bookshoppe. Terry Pratchett has just announced that he has been diagnosed with a very rare form of early onset Alzheimer’s.
The official statement is here
http://tinyurl.com/2kjt34
and it’s confirmed on the Terry Pratchett message board
http://tinyurl.com/2sw5bv
Why make yourself suffer? Why not just cut to the chase and review one of your zombie flicks now? We’ll all be happier in the end.
Has there ever been a Christmas-themed zombie movie, and if there hasn’t, isnt it about time?
Has there ever been a Christmas-themed zombie movie, and if there hasn’t, isnt it about time?
Haven’t you ever seen It’s a Wonderful Life?
Apologies to the fans.
“Has there ever been a Christmas-themed zombie movie…”
Ever seen the acting in The Hallmark Channel’s Christmas movies? If they’re not “zombie” films, they’re dámņëd close. And the writing scares the hëll out of me.
Hey guys…I have to apologize in advance for this not being related to the topic at hand, but it is a topic often discussed here and it’s sort of tangentially related to an old issue of Supergirl.
So basically, I’m having a dispute with a co-worker who is giving me the old “homosexuality is wrong because my religion says so.” Now, I’m not gay myself but I can’t stand it when people hide their bigotry behind the Bible. One of the best, and most concise, arguments against this line of thinking comes from an old issue of Supergirl where Andy Jones says something to the effect of (mind you I’m paraphrasing from a comic I haven’t read for 5 years):
“Sure, the Bible has prohibitions against homosexuality. But it also says that a suspected adulteress should drink poison to test her guilt, and a child who curses his parent should be stoned. Funny how people tossed those aside, huh?”
I’m pretty Bible illiterate myself, so I was wondering if anyone knew where those passages–or others like it–are in the Bible? I think you all know where I’m going with this…it’s the fairly text book secular defense against Bible-thumping. Granted, I don’t think I can change his world view, but it would be nice if even for a split second it got him thinking about why, in his view of morality, only certain Bible passages make the cut. Passages from the New Testament will probably be more effective than Old (is there anything even about homosexuality in the New?). So…does anyone know any good websites or resources for this? PAD, if you’re there, I’d love your input.
Check out Leviticus…it’s got all kinds of prohibitions that nobody takes seriously anymore.
At any rate, Jesus recommended turning the other cheek in the face of actual harm so it stands to reason He would not be in favor of doing bad things to people whose “sin”, if one sees it as such, does you no harm whatsoever.
But don’t expect reason to make much headway.
I’m just demonstrating a paganistic indifference, Bill. You’re just catching me while I’m at work. Thank you for the correction.
S’cool. I wonder how many man-hours this blog has cost the economy.
Christmas themed zombies…don’t think so…there’s a game at http://www.hallpass.com/media/christmaszombiedefence.html but it isn’t very good.
Geoff,
Most of the rules are in Leviticus. IIRC, there’s no reference to homosexuality in the New Testament, other than that 12 guys traveling around together bit.
Interestingly, the prohibitions are against 2 men, showing that G-d likes a bit of Hot Lesbian Action as much as the rest of us 😀
I can’t remember any Christmas zombie films, but wasn’t there one with a killer Santa? Now if that isn’t incentive to be nice instead of naughty, I don’t know what would be…
Wasn’t there one with a killer Santa? ONE?!? Oh, you poor sheltered girl, you need more DVDs.
Fox News would reports that this is evidence of an ever-deepening pole dancer conspiracy no doubt involving The Golden Compass and the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs’ mascot
I wish I could say this kind of thing suprises me but sadly, it dosen’t.
I watched “Jesus Camp” last week and thought it was the scariest dámņëd thing I’ve seen in a long time. You actually see kids’ minds being warped before your eyes. I’ve known people who were programmed like that. These kids are the future concentration camp guards, folks.
There was the Columbine-styled shooting in Colorado a few days. Some folks are so worried
about “fightin’ em’ over there so we don’t fight em’ over here” that we don’t realize the kind of freak factories that out there in the Heartland.
Everyone should also check out Mike Huckabee’s
babblings in regards to his past remarks about
gays and people with HIV/AIDS. Still think the concentration camps are far-fetched?
Jesus, some of Your more clueless followers are really screwing up Your ideas.
Start the Law & Order clock on this one, too. As long as they don’t combine it with the pole dancers…
Why not? That could only be an an improvement..
Props for the last line.
What I wanna know is – can’t we all just be a little nicer to one another? and maybe exchange a few gifts with our closer friends and loved ones? for just one month before the weather gets really foul? without bringing religion into it?
What I wanna know is – can’t we all just be a little nicer to one another? and maybe exchange a few gifts with our closer friends and loved ones? for just one month before the weather gets really foul? without bringing religion into it?
What I wanna know is – can’t we all just be a little nicer to one another? and maybe exchange a few gifts with our closer friends and loved ones? for just one month before the weather gets really foul? without bringing religion into it?
What I wanna know is – can’t we all just be a little nicer to one another? and maybe exchange a few gifts with our closer friends and loved ones? for just one month before the weather gets really foul? without bringing religion into it?
What I wanna know is – can’t we all just be a little nicer to one another? and maybe exchange a few gifts with our closer friends and loved ones? for just one month before the weather gets really foul? without bringing religion into it?
Speaking of failure to grasp simple concepts: Bill’s corretion changed the interpretation of my hypothetical situation — but my response works with his correction. I literally failed nothing.
And speaking of the inability to admit error: Take notes for your own precedent, Jerry. If one of us has cause to complain on this issue, it ain’t you.
Jerry wrote:Oh, you poor sheltered girl, you need more DVDs.
All donations are welcome. 🙂
I hadn’t realized that there was more than one Santa slasher. Just don’t tell me if they made one about the Easter Bunny…
Does Easter Bunny, Kill! Kill! count as a “don’t tell me if” movie?
Ok, I won’t tell you about it. Not on DVD anyhow.
“Wait the Romans killed Jesus?”
Somebody hasn’t been keeping up with “The View”.
According to the newest View co-host, Sherry Shallow, it was the Greeks.
(She was probably really referring to fraternities, but who knows?)
I don’t know of any Christmas zombie movies. However, FUTURAMA, when aired on Cartoon Network, frequently cuts out the Professor’s exclamation “Sweet zombie Jesus!” This is odd since they don’t mind having a killer Santa robot (or Zoidberg pretending to be Jesus), nor do they mind the line that all the videotapes were erased during the second coming of Jesus. This is to say nothing of how Jesus comes off on SOUTH PARK or FAMILY GUY…
Actually, my favorite creepy Christmas story–besides the original BLACK CHRISTMAS which STILL holds up–is the episode of INVADER ZIM “The Most Horrible Christmas Ever”.
Mr. Sludgy: That’s the story of the most horrible Christmas ever. But Zim and Dib were wrong that day. Santa wasn’t destroyed, Santa lives on…
Small Child: In the hearts, and minds, of us all? [giggles]
Mr. Sludgy: No! In space! Gathering power! And every Christmas he returns to Earth, and that’s why we all live in this protective dome! [alarm sounds] Looks like Santa’s here! Raise the shields, children!
It also has my favorite Christmas song ever:
Bow down,
bow down,
before the power of Santa
or be crushed,
be crushed,
by…his jolly boots of doom!
How nice for the assailant you won’t infer his Christian bias from his immaculate conception.
Lingster, is that you?
Anyways.
I do find it sad that beyond this story is how quickly some will just defend their religion with the whole “Well, they obviously weren’t Christians after all”, all the while going on about how we should kill all the Muslims, because their bad apples actually count.
I saw that the shootings here in Colorado were mentioned. The kid behind that was seriously screwed up in the head; he may have been raised in a very religious family, but I don’t think if you receive the proper teachings of Jesus (and by all accounts, he did), that you end up with a kid like that because of religion itself, or with the morons in this subway incident.
I’m not a fan of organized religion, but I can’t blame it for these particular incidents.
Did you find that in Lingster’s post? My post is the post that draws you into the discussion?
The question doesn’t seem to be who I am than it seems to be who are you without me.
Yeah but Mitt Romneys a mormon. Sorry
Hmmm. It is scary to think that people like that do exist in our society.
I agree, people that are searching for someone to hate only cling to religion as a accuse. The jail time one of the attacker got for attacking a black jay in 2005 had nothing to do with religion. Then it was skin color, they probably hate other minorities as well.
If you hate, you usually hate all kind of people, because hatred is a mental state and all rationalism is only a tool to allow one to keep on hating.
People choose to hate, it has nothing to do with religion this is just an excuse, as the record of one of the attacker for attacking a black person indicate.
If someone hates he usually hates everybody, at least all people that it is “safe” to hate.
To Geoff:
I’m not that bible literate myself, but maybe this website helps you:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm
Cheers
Ben
Firstly, I hope those kids are alright, psychologically as well as physically. They did the right thing, by taking the non-violent approach. And, cheers to the Muslim fellow who stepped in to try to protect them and break it up. As for the “christian” attackers — well, it’s just more proof that terrorists *do* live among us, and the Misadministration has been barreling in the wrong direction for years now…
Wildcat
the Misadministration has been barreling in the wrong direction for years now…
Heh, but could you imagine how low the approval rating would have been if our Misadministration had suggested the problem was with us and not with the “outside world”?
Not defending them mind you, but I can see why they wouldn’t want to go in that direction.
The question is, if the next administration chooses to focus on the hate crime problem, what can they do to fix it?
Religion gives three major things to people. 1. Comfort about their place in the universe. 2. Guidance through life’s journey. 3. An excuse to act like a moron and pound things when they don’t go your way.
Every time I hear about something like this, I picture God looking around and thinking, “Don’t try to pin this one on ME, you jerks!”
“Does Easter Bunny, Kill! Kill! count as a “don’t tell me if” movie?”
Don’t forget about that whole sequence in the second Bill and Ted movie!!
What do you MEAN, I’m the only person on the planet who retained the power of linguistic communication whose seen that and lived?
Geoff – Just reread that SUPERGIRL issue a few days ago. Good timing, yes. For those who didn’t get that, the story had the titular character trying to keep Stanhope campus from erupting into riots as blacks protested the planned visit by a notorious bigot scheduled to speak there. Supergirl winds up in the middle as she tries to protect his right to free speech, which has the blacks convinced she’s on his side, as opposed to on the side of an important principle. PAD’s punchline is dead-on as usual as the black students congratulate themselves – the speaker has been driven away by a violent confrontation (not to mention a bombed-out campus building). Only … a representative of the jewish students shows up and tells them the speaker *they’ve* got scheduled – an Islamic(?) who is known for anti-Semetic stance – is unacceptable to the Jewish group and they’ll do everything they can to shut HIM down. Of course this comes as a surprise to the black leadership on campus who seem unable to grasp that they aren’t the only ones put upon and if they don’t respect others’ free speech, why should anyone respect theirs? What goes around …
My post is the post that draws you into the discussion?
You give yourself too much credit, as usual.
But next time I’ll be sure to put any responses to you after I respond to everybody else first. That way, it’ll help keep your ego in check.
The justification for establishing hate crime standards isn’t just controversial in general, it’s controversial here. Although they have yet to do so here, most of the most vocal posters here, as well as our host, have previously expressed contempt for hate crime standards. Perhaps now that it isn’t just you speaking in favor of them, they may feel free to do so now.
The first actionable rule of the Art of War is that you must follow moral law. As well as signing laws and enforcing policy, the president speaks and is heard by the public. He could make the establishment in itself of hate crime standards less controversial by framing them by protectionist standards we already live with. The police are rightly protected by standards corresponding with their higher visibility and higher vulnerability from their obvious non-conformity with the rest of the population and their interaction with people demonstrating they don’t observe the boundaries of others. Once a cop tells you he’s a cop, the penalty for injuring him increases substantially.
With hate crime standards, the higher visibility comes from their obvious conformity to a minority standard. The higher vulnerability comes from the people — who we need the police in the first place to keep in check — perceiving a greater ease in getting away with exploiting the greater population’s indifference with the increased victimization the minorities experience.
What the next administration can do is dispel the misconception that hate crime standards do not set the precedent for greater protections for those who have a greater visibility and a greater vulnerability from their obvious non-conformity.
What the next administration can do is dispel the misconception that hate crime standards SET the precedent for greater protections for those who have a greater visibility and a greater vulnerability from their obvious non-conformity.
Yes, please try to do more to avoid leading my parade.
Although they have yet to do so here, most of the most vocal posters here, as well as our host, have previously expressed contempt for hate crime standards. Perhaps now that it isn’t just you speaking in favor of them, they may feel free to do so now.
Much of that “contempt”, as it were, was due to the arrogant illogic of the arguments made by a specific poster.
As Christine displays none of those characteristics, it should come as no surprise that her words do not produce anything resembling contempt.
There’s a lesson there for anyone willing and able to learn. But you have to be willing. And able.
Christine’s arbitrary siding with hate crime standards, as well as the arbitrary siding against hate crime standards, literally meets no qualification of logic or humility whatsoever. Discretion is a privilege, which is neither logical or humble.
The point was that she did NOT display any arrogance or illogic. Thank you for agreeing with my assessment.
What you probably want to do is claim that you yourself do not come off, frequently, as an arrogant ášš. Good luck
Just for the record, I am opposed to the notion of legislating “hate crimes.” Hatred has its place in the legal system: It serves as motivation. If five guys jump me on a subway, I don’t really give a crap if it’s because they hate Jews, hate bald guys, hate guys with glasses, or want my wallet. I just want their áššëš in jail because they beat me up.
I think the moment you start legislating the specifics of what is going through a person’s mind, you’re embarking on a slippery slope. As much as it may make us feel good knowing that one gets extra punishment for being a bigot, it still has too many echoes of the beginnings of the Thought Police for my comfort level.
PAD
Supergirl winds up in the middle as she tries to protect his right to free speech, which has the blacks convinced she’s on his side, as opposed to on the side of an important principle.
Boy, did I catch crap over that story from Steel fans. They were outraged that I depicted Steel siding with the students demanding that the bigoted speaker not be allowed to speak. Steel put forth all these arguments as to why it should not be tolerated, and fans slammed it, saying that the views Steel was expressing were moronic.
Here’s the kicker: In crafting Steel’s dialogue, I drew copiously–and in some instances swiped word for word–from letters, essays and speeches from black professors who sided with students during the several real-life incidents that inspired the Supergirl story. The arguments that readers contended were “insulting” to a man of Steel’s intelligence–dialogue that some claimed I was putting in there just to make Steel look bad–were the words of men far more educated and well-read than I.
PAD
Mike inaccurately claims: Christine’s arbitrary siding with hate crime standards, as well as the arbitrary siding against hate crime standards, literally meets no qualification of logic or humility whatsoever.
Maybe I still need the coffee to kick in, but now you’ve confused me.
All I mentioned was that I could see the logic (flawed, but there) of the current Misadministration directing it’s attention to those outside this country. I certainly didn’t condone it.
You know… I’m gonna go get more coffee before I comment any further, because my current inclination is to say something I might regret…
You know… I’m gonna go get more coffee before I comment any further, because my current inclination is to say something I might regret…
Christine, you could mainline a Starbucks and still not make sense of a typical Mike posting. That’s why I gave up trying long ago.
PAD
My observation is relevant in that you are giving credit for a humility and logic no one has demonstrated. Giving and taking unmerited credit for a virtue is arrogant and illogical.
Holding others to a standard of humility and logic you refuse to be held to is hypocritical.
You are invalidating the state of mind of the accused in penalizing them for a given outcome. It’s a wonder there are degrees of penalties for attacking or killing people. Going by what you say, all killings should be prosecuted as murder one.
In as much as you have withheld your reason for backing the establishment of hate crime standards, — which I agree with, by the way — your backing is literally arbitrary. Therefore, Mike’s claim is accurate.
PAD wrote: I think the moment you start legislating the specifics of what is going through a person’s mind, you’re embarking on a slippery slope.
Agreed. Which is part of the reason I asked “if the next administration chooses to focus on the hate crime problem, what can they do to fix it” earlier. I cannot see a clear cut answer.
We’re ALREADY on that slope. Motive is ALWAYS considered for both determination of guilt and of punishment.
PAD wrote: Christine, you could mainline a Starbucks and still not make sense of a typical Mike posting. That’s why I gave up trying long ago.
Good point. At the risk of being labeled a copy-cat, I think I’ll follow your lead here.
Bill Mulligan wrote:The point was that she did NOT display any arrogance or illogic.
Thanks. 🙂
You simply portrayed the “hate crime problem” as a given, not as something as merely alleged to be a problem. You asked a question, and I answered it. It’s a wonder you feel the need to challenge anything I’ve said.
Don’t mention it. Anyway, Mike has set the bar pretty low on the standards of reasoned discourse.